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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GM Dave" data-source="post: 5782883" data-attributes="member: 6687992">Personally, I would rather replace the iconic level system with a group of four or five complexity levels.The trouble with a 'level' system is that eventually a player starts to 'grow' beyond certain challenges.  Orcs and goblins tend to be replaced by trolls and drow in a DnD level system.  An adult red dragon that used to be a fearsome terror shrinks to become a pet that gets slapped down hard if it gets out of line.The reason for this is the bonuses and defenses are often linked to levels that are designed to 'grow' with the player.  This is fine if you want to play the story of the village child that grows in power to eventually take on titans in mortal combat but if that is not your story then a level system does not match up well.A complexity system would set up the game around an easy setting where it is very similar to a OD&D character sheet with one or two types of attacks (weapons or spells) and not much else beyond what the players describe with their words.Complexity levels would grow and have at the top tier be a full set of choices of feats, skills, weapon choices, spells, powers which would require a large amount of management to keep track of all the choices.The removal of the level from the consideration would mean that a dragon would be difficult or easy based upon how the DM set the monster in the story.  The DM would not have to worry that if the players ignore the dragon for two months to go bash goblins and orcs that the dragon has now become weak and punny compared to the players 'new' abilities.Could players be rewarded with advancement in such a system?I think there are plenty of non-mechanical rewards that would then become the focus of the story.  I'm planning to use this approach in my latest campaign with rewards of servants, towers, labs, access to NPCs, and other things instead of XP.  I'll leave it up to the players to decide when they want to add complexity to their characters with more spells, feats, and dodads.This brings back things to the trouble with a level system is that the surroundings of the characters need to 'level' up or things start to become easy and have little challenge (a style of play that players can choose to do but it should be a DM/Player choice and not a forced mechanic of the system).  If you want to have goblins be easy to fight then that should be how those goblins are made.Players and DMs could also decide a points in time to change levels of complexity.  This would mean just adding more options of what they can do in a combat.  Instead of a swing of a sword it might be 'Mattock of the Titans' blow that requires a large club and has a chance to stun if the blow hits.</blockquote>

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