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<blockquote data-quote="Ridley's Cohort" data-source="post: 1765793" data-attributes="member: 545">Fair enough.&nbsp; I would say those house rules are certainly worth a read, but I recommend against using them as written.I used the trivial cases as a rhetorical tactic to point towards the mechanical problem.&nbsp; My main complaint is the rules obliterates any incentive for a high level character to grab a few ranks in Diplomacy (&quot;just to round out his personality&quot;).In real play I would expect any truly non-trivial negotiation for a 20th level PC will require the character to hit DC 40+ using those house rules.&nbsp; So a 20th level Sorceror who has his 30 Cha and 5 ranks of Diplomacy cannot conceivably succeed if the DM asks the player to pick up the die and roll.&nbsp; A Fighter who maxs out Diplomacy as a cross-class skill cannot usefully apply the skill except with the most minor NPCs.That creates a peverse incentive to not take Diplomacy at all for most characters.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ridley's Cohort, post: 1765793, member: 545"] Fair enough. I would say those house rules are certainly worth a read, but I recommend against using them as written. I used the trivial cases as a rhetorical tactic to point towards the mechanical problem. My main complaint is the rules obliterates any incentive for a high level character to grab a few ranks in Diplomacy ("just to round out his personality"). In real play I would expect any truly non-trivial negotiation for a 20th level PC will require the character to hit DC 40+ using those house rules. So a 20th level Sorceror who has his 30 Cha and 5 ranks of Diplomacy [i]cannot[/i] conceivably succeed if the DM asks the player to pick up the die and roll. A Fighter who maxs out Diplomacy as a cross-class skill cannot usefully apply the skill except with the most minor NPCs. That creates a peverse incentive to not take Diplomacy at all for most characters. [/QUOTE]

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