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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kahuna Burger" data-source="post: 1536977" data-attributes="member: 8439">if you don't allow the use of sense motive to oppose bluff attempts, I doubt it was because you "figured out how the rules are supposed to work". You may have found a way to interpret or adjust them that works better for you, but I'd say you are dealing in house rules, not some better understanding of the rules as written. Not that this is a problem, if your players like it.In response to the orriginal question, my general rule is that what the player says establishes their goals and tactics in the social interaction, and the die rolls indicate their success. Some tactics are more effective and some goals more attainable, just like in combat. Sometimes you can't use your fabulous charge attack because there are people in the way or the distance is too great, and sometimes you don't have the time, circumstances or communication ability to make a full "change of attitude" diplomacy check. On the other hand, sometimes you have the perfect setup to employ optimal tactics, but your skill or luck falls short of succeeding. On rare occasions the choosen tactics or goals are so phenomenally bad that I might call for a check to give a hint that "based on your character's knowlege of X, that might not be the best way of aproaching this." I don't know that this is strictly by the book, but it avoids two different problems I have seen - players who ignore charisma and social skills but act like they have them anyway, and those who roleplay obnoxious jerks then expect npcs to react to them based on their character's stats instead of their behaviour.Kahuna Burger</blockquote>

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