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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Diplomacy on PC's
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<blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 1263435" data-attributes="member: 15538"><p><em>If a character changes to always do the smartest thing in a given situation, then he is not really a character, but a puppet. </em></p><p></p><p>What if the character concept doesn't include being a dupe? Being paranoid is itself a character flaw. A player is not obliged to do something stupid because it fits the story the DM wants to tell. It's no different than saying "Without thinking, you open the chest," when the player insists he does not open the chest. However much the DM may feel the PC would be driven by curiosity to do so, it's the player's choice.</p><p></p><p>As far as the storytelling goes, it is the player's right to tell the story they want to, within their sphere of control. When it comes down to it, their character's actions are the only thing they control in the game. Taking that away makes them a spectator rather than a participant.</p><p></p><p>A roleplaying game is a roleplaying <em>game</em> and the player has a right to be directive. In a certain sense, a PC is a puppet. It's the player's puppet, to which he has assigned a name, purpose, and attributes. To define how his character "should" act is to preempt his vision of the character in some small way.</p><p></p><p>There are games and situations where compulsions overtake character choice. But it strikes me as unfair at every level for the DM to dictate when a character will carry someone else's luggage. One character has a Diplomacy skill, but there is no comparative ability that translates as "I don't carry no luggage for nobody." At the very least, a player should be within his rights that unless the <strong>DM</strong> can argue some way otherwise, he is immediately Hostile to a certain course of action. </p><p></p><p>"This skill represents the ability to give others the right impression of yourself, to negotiate effectively, and to influence others."</p><p></p><p>Diplomacy cannot make even NPCs break character. While they may be influenced, they may still not be persuaded to change their behavior. Diplomacy affects only attitude, not behavior. Even a Helpful character may not spare a character a few silvers if he is miserly and believes the character is capable of getting some money in any other fashion.</p><p></p><p>Even if you allowed Diplomacy against a PC, you could be left with,</p><p></p><p>"I am willing to help you, but I'm not carrying your luggage for you. If you like, I'll take a second to show you how to stow your pack properly."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pawsplay, post: 1263435, member: 15538"] [i]If a character changes to always do the smartest thing in a given situation, then he is not really a character, but a puppet. [/i] What if the character concept doesn't include being a dupe? Being paranoid is itself a character flaw. A player is not obliged to do something stupid because it fits the story the DM wants to tell. It's no different than saying "Without thinking, you open the chest," when the player insists he does not open the chest. However much the DM may feel the PC would be driven by curiosity to do so, it's the player's choice. As far as the storytelling goes, it is the player's right to tell the story they want to, within their sphere of control. When it comes down to it, their character's actions are the only thing they control in the game. Taking that away makes them a spectator rather than a participant. A roleplaying game is a roleplaying [i]game[/i] and the player has a right to be directive. In a certain sense, a PC is a puppet. It's the player's puppet, to which he has assigned a name, purpose, and attributes. To define how his character "should" act is to preempt his vision of the character in some small way. There are games and situations where compulsions overtake character choice. But it strikes me as unfair at every level for the DM to dictate when a character will carry someone else's luggage. One character has a Diplomacy skill, but there is no comparative ability that translates as "I don't carry no luggage for nobody." At the very least, a player should be within his rights that unless the [b]DM[/b] can argue some way otherwise, he is immediately Hostile to a certain course of action. "This skill represents the ability to give others the right impression of yourself, to negotiate effectively, and to influence others." Diplomacy cannot make even NPCs break character. While they may be influenced, they may still not be persuaded to change their behavior. Diplomacy affects only attitude, not behavior. Even a Helpful character may not spare a character a few silvers if he is miserly and believes the character is capable of getting some money in any other fashion. Even if you allowed Diplomacy against a PC, you could be left with, "I am willing to help you, but I'm not carrying your luggage for you. If you like, I'll take a second to show you how to stow your pack properly." [/QUOTE]
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