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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 906023" data-attributes="member: 151">That rheotoric's a tad strong, don't you think?  I can guarantee you, this is not a guaranteed TPK for an 11th level party.  Dangerous?  Clearly.  But he's got plenty of weaknesses going for him.  He's Collosal, for a start.  That means he can't fit a lot of places (40x80), has a touch AC of 2 and a normal AC of 20.  He has no stealth capability, a mere +7 Spot (and thus easily to hide from) and no magical defenses to speak of.An archer at this level could destroy this thing unaided if they started far enough apart.  A barbarian with a broadsword and some buffs could stand up to it, as well.   On average, it will deal, what, 25 points of damage on a full attack?  With a cleric in tow, this poor bug is toast.  With 6th level spells in operation, things aren't going too badly, either.  Acid Fog doesn't require a save, for example, and Freezing Sphere requires only a ranged touch (AC 2, remember) and that's 11d6 right there.  Most of the wizard's direct damagers will do half of 11d6.Let's not forget that he can't even fly, which at least half the party will do by this level, let alone polymorphs and other abilities.The cleric is doing fine, too.  How about Blade Barrier?  Save to avoid the first time, but each succesive round...nada.  A creature as big as that is just waiting to be chopped and diced.    Got a druid handy?  Say hello to anti-life shell and fire seeds.  Not to mention the buffs that are available at this level.  You've got tons of defensive buffs, such as Blur, Mirror Image and a host of others to make this a much less lethal encounter than you might suggest.  That's not even counting animal companions, summoned monsters and cohorts to join in the fun.  My experience has shown that the CR system does get wonky at points, but not nearly as out of whack as some folks would represent.  I respect Upper Krust's work, and it may actually even do what is represented.  What it doesn't do is make things any easier for me, the DM.  Calculating fractional CRs and ELs and inflating them is not really terribly helpful, to me.  UK's system requires you to accept his values or do the math yourself, and it still doesn't really help, as it doesn't factor in a ton of factors beyond the MM or his control.  The CR system is a guideline, and a pretty darn good one.  It gives a rough estimate of what to expect.  The combinations of classes, abilities, spells and magic items make it difficult for any system to serve the double-duty of being both quick and informative.  I've run a group of 18th-level PCs against a CR 23 creature....and they all survived to tell the tale.  Things like preparation, party synergy and a host of other pieces of the puzzle make CR a good estimate, but not an actual iron-clad number.</blockquote>

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