Dirty DM tricks for pickpocketing.

[Lord Ben]

I think that when DMs deliberately play nasty tricks to stop their players from exercising the skills that they're supposed to be good at it drastically affects everyone's enjoyment of the game (unless the DM just wants to get a power trip out of it, in which case it only affects the enjoyment of the majority of the people involved (the players)...which is still not a good thing).

Not sure if this was directed at me...

Not every person would nail them, but in a world like this they're eventually going to stumble across someone with protection. It's not denying him the chance to use pickpocket, it's giving him the chance to use bluff and diplomacy! Anyways, there are always consequences to your actions. He's had a few easy marks, now it's time for something a bit more tricky.

 

[CullAfulMoshuN]

That is exactly the point of the guidelines I wrote for my game above. It is an entire campaign based around thieves but not necessarily thieves guilds. I've found from use and tweeking that they have worked very well both in my game, and for another DM in our group who has also started running a city based game in Birthright and has taken to using the rules. So I've experienced them as both a player and a DM and have enjoyed them.

They were deliberately written with the thought in mind that most people do not carry protections, and those that do will probably also appear more dangerous (obvious mage or noble, probably with body guards) and only the most daring thieves would actually make the attempt. The rolled opportunities represent a spotted opening or easy target by the thief, and the player can choose whether or not to make the attempt or move on if the mark looks too hard core.

I recommend giving them a whirl, even just with a mock thief you roll up yourself.

 

[Pielorinho]

(...and just to voice one more small pet peeve of mine...I'm definitely not a fan of people who are offended too easily. Calm down...it was an observation, not an insult)

I'm not particularly offended, but I think you're incorrect when you imply that we're ignorant about crime. It was a tactless observation on your part, and I figured I'd point out to you how it distracts from the meat of your message. Take it or leave it.

Your remarks about different types of thievery are interesting. However, it's pretty clear from your post that you play a thiefly character: you seem to object to DMs' making thieving difficult:

I'm sure there is more to be said, and I could go on for a long while about this, but I think that just about every remedy that has been given in this thread so far is just going well beyond too far...let the thieves do their thing, it's what they do and what they're trained at and supposed to excel at, they don't get a lot of money from it (well, they can if they do it right ;-)

I disagree. Your post doesn't deal with the fact that, while thieves are professionals, they're in a high-risk field. Modern-day thieves get caught all the time and serve lengthy prison sentences. Thieves in a D&D world may face prison or worse: execution, torture, mutilation, slavery, etc.

In fact, a thief who becomes too successful is going to inspire nasty countermeasures of just the sort we're discussing here. If these aren't successful, then merchants are likely to hire someone to take care of the problem. Were I playing a thief, I'd be disappointed if the local merchants just kept sitting around like breathing ATMs waiting for me to make a withdrawal.

The discussion here isn't, I think, how to prevent thieves from "doing their thing." I think the discussion is properly how to provide challenges to thieves so that "doing their thing" is dangerous, unpredictable, and exciting, and how to model the reactions of the thieves' victims plausibly.

Daniel