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Dirty Fighting an Knockdown
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<blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 1074283" data-attributes="member: 6875"><p>Given that Knockdown is the third feat in a chain, <strong>shouldn't</strong> it be REALLY good?</p><p></p><p>Compare Knockdown (combat expertise/improved trip/KD) to Whirlwind Attack (dodge/mobility/WW). Right now, with a reach weapon, the WW attacker can get an absolutely HIDEOUS number of attacks when surrounded. At no risk.</p><p></p><p>Alternately, compare it to Spring Attack. Up, whack, and away -- and noAoO from your target for yoru movement. Pretty darned HANDY, if you ask ME.</p><p></p><p>Knockdown is at a similar position, and frankly, it's prerequisites are comparatively HARDER to qualify for for most archetypal fighters (the archetype being "big, not-so-bright BRICK with lotsa stength and hitpoints out the wazoo"); most of them won't have the requisite 13+ intelligence, and even then, will possibly consider the Expertise to be a waste -- or just takeit as a "gateway" to better things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Uuuuuh ... as a prerequisite for Knockdown?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, <strong>I</strong> don't think so. I've got a Halfogre Exoticist (form the recent DMG), who wields a Duom, has Large and In Charge, and Knockdown. Two more levels of Exoticist, and I qualify for Weapon Master ... *grin* ... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whichis quite valid. Many actual martial arts focus on the concept of trying to put your enemy off-balance, or even knock them prone, before the "real" attacks begin.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep. <strong>That</strong> would be the archetypal "thud and blunder" fighter.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree, which is why <strong>my</strong> halfogre picked the Duom, instead of the default spiked chain.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[sarcasm] ... "good role-playing" ... ?[/sarcasm]</p><p></p><p>The only flaw I see, is your comment:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> ... in response to Hypersmurf pointing out the FAQ disallows a fre follow-up on the free trip form the heavy hit.</p><p></p><p>Seriously -- isn't it enough that they've been knocked on their arse (giving you a +4 for the NEXT attack in your full-attack routine), and have to spend an MEA to stand up (preventing them form full attacking you BACK) ... ?</p><p></p><p>Knockdown as-is is an okay feat, worth taking if it fits your style.</p><p></p><p>Knockdown as-is, <strong>and without counter-tripping</strong>, makes for an excellent goal within it's style. And it makes sense, since you're LITERALLY hitting them so hard, they get ... well ... <em>knocked down.</em> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pax, post: 1074283, member: 6875"] Given that Knockdown is the third feat in a chain, [b]shouldn't[/b] it be REALLY good? Compare Knockdown (combat expertise/improved trip/KD) to Whirlwind Attack (dodge/mobility/WW). Right now, with a reach weapon, the WW attacker can get an absolutely HIDEOUS number of attacks when surrounded. At no risk. Alternately, compare it to Spring Attack. Up, whack, and away -- and noAoO from your target for yoru movement. Pretty darned HANDY, if you ask ME. Knockdown is at a similar position, and frankly, it's prerequisites are comparatively HARDER to qualify for for most archetypal fighters (the archetype being "big, not-so-bright BRICK with lotsa stength and hitpoints out the wazoo"); most of them won't have the requisite 13+ intelligence, and even then, will possibly consider the Expertise to be a waste -- or just takeit as a "gateway" to better things. Uuuuuh ... as a prerequisite for Knockdown? Well, [b]I[/b] don't think so. I've got a Halfogre Exoticist (form the recent DMG), who wields a Duom, has Large and In Charge, and Knockdown. Two more levels of Exoticist, and I qualify for Weapon Master ... *grin* ... Whichis quite valid. Many actual martial arts focus on the concept of trying to put your enemy off-balance, or even knock them prone, before the "real" attacks begin. Yep. [b]That[/b] would be the archetypal "thud and blunder" fighter. I agree, which is why [b]my[/b] halfogre picked the Duom, instead of the default spiked chain. [sarcasm] ... "good role-playing" ... ?[/sarcasm] The only flaw I see, is your comment: ... in response to Hypersmurf pointing out the FAQ disallows a fre follow-up on the free trip form the heavy hit. Seriously -- isn't it enough that they've been knocked on their arse (giving you a +4 for the NEXT attack in your full-attack routine), and have to spend an MEA to stand up (preventing them form full attacking you BACK) ... ? Knockdown as-is is an okay feat, worth taking if it fits your style. Knockdown as-is, [b]and without counter-tripping[/b], makes for an excellent goal within it's style. And it makes sense, since you're LITERALLY hitting them so hard, they get ... well ... [i]knocked down.[/i] :D [/QUOTE]
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