NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4531492" data-attributes="member: 7635">Firstly, you are entitled to your opinion. Barring the stupid move of selling your 3.X materials off (never sell an edition of D&D off until your 2 years into the next; word of advice). That said, I kinda agree with you. 4e strikes me as a combination of good ideas and play fixes, I think few if anyone stopped to look and see what the complete package would look like. Subtle nods to nostalgia aside, there are plenty of things that appear to be good fixes in isolation, but when mixed in the whole package come off as blah. This comes from the powers (which I'll address below) and the fact powers are only allowed to do so many things. The classes themselves don't feel cookie cutter compared to each other (a fighter does play different than a wizard, unified mechanic aside) but power/resolution system coupled with (As the OP said) more tightly enforced roles (which is good for character generation, but limiting in play).Going to disagree with you here: while 4e's economy of actions might be very limited, the laize-faire market of 3e was overwhelming for exactly the reasons you list: summoners, necromancers, animal companions, and other "sidekick" characters. The problem became common at higher-levels that the summoned creatures took as long (if not longer) to resolve than the player who summoned them. This was do the monsters having full-attacks and complicated SLA's in their own right, making each summon a mini-PC, and slowing game down immensely for someone who'se combat round consisted of a.) casting a spell (or more than one with quicken) and resolving b.) having a summon full-attack (2-3 attacks/rd) a foe and c.) resolving any actions your familiar/animal companion/homunculus/mount/whatever might be doing. Compared to a non-spellcasters "full attack and go back to sleep" round, spellcaster/summoners were a nightmare. Here is the root of my problem. Most of the powers are simply "hit: damage + effect" system. Arcane powers are "damage + negative status ailment", divine powers are "damage + allies get benefit" and martial is "higher damage + maybe an ailment, buff, or move". There is some blur, but there are few powers that don't fit the "damage + something" system. I know WotC wanted everyone to feel the rush of attacking (and not wasting rounds solely on buffing or healing) but more effects that didn't fit the "damage + effect" structure would have seemed more...complete. While I do not lament first-round "anti-combats" that seemed less than cinematic, the HP spike does lead to slower, drawn out combats that before would have been simple. Good for bigger battles, but after a while, they get repetitive. Wizards needed something of a nerf, they got the whole enchilada. Most of their spells do far too little damage; and the loss of spells in summoning, enchantment, and necromancy makes them feel very "blaster" and not much else. Where are the polymorph effects (not the broken spell polymorph, but the "level 1: turn into an orc" effects?) Where are the "summon skeletal warrior to fight for you for 5 min" effects? Where are the "dominate a foe to take your blows for you like a succubus does" effects? Where are the "make your foes flee from your fearful illusion" effects? Oh, right. Arcane power. Or PHB2. Or beyond.  I love the concept, but some of those rituals aren't worth the gp. The combination of cost and reduction of power has made many not worth it, and the limited list so far has been less than inspiring. Like the OP, I'd hoped the summons, animations, and other "high cost in XP/GP" spells were here. Sadly, many are just gone (wish/anyspell powers, atonement). This doesn't bother me anymore like it should. While the 3.X part of my mind asked "well, what ritual DOES a wizard use to make a skeleton or a shield guardian?" I don't mind that knowledge being verboten to players. It stresses a "good vs. evil" theme stronger as the bad-guys have forbidden lore no PC should possess.(It does make evil PCs, or those who seek that knowledge, come up the poorer. Esp. true of evil divine PCs)That said, I don't stress out about the existence of minions, or where golems come from. -----If I can add my own "I hate this" to the pile; the treatment of some classic literary monsters has been abysmal. Specifically, I speak of lycanthropes that no longer spread the curse, raksasha's who take damage from swords and spells like any other monster (and don't fear a blessed bolt anymore) and vampires who don't fear the sun (though to be fair, <a href="http://www.snopes.com/language/literary/dracula.asp" target="_blank">Dracula</a> didn't either) but it could easily extend to the loss of DR/SR as a tool to force specific tactics or special weaknesses. This, of course, was a result of PCs whose powers are limited in nature and it was designed to no longer punish PCs in specific fights (like spellcasters vs. golems or rogues vs. undead) but it does darken the sky when vampires, golems and raksashas are just another bundle of hp and special powers...</blockquote>

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