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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 4531554" data-attributes="member: 7635">Scorching Burst is a good example of the wizard's new gig; average damage over many foes. That's ok. However, some of their powers are weak compared to what other roles get; fireball, cloudkill, meteor swarm all pale compared to some warlock or cleric powers (in a completely different role, true, but there is no other controller to compare with)Orc was a bad example. How bout a troll. Or a gargoyle. Or a giant. Or a dragon. PHB2 delivered a method of creating such powers in 3.5 (one spell, one form, use generic statblock but your own hp) that would have worked just fine in 4e, except those powers aren't there. All your doing in turning a "deal X damage and Y effect" power into "deal A damage and B effect". A skeletal warrior summoned might eat up your Economy of Actions, but he can attack, defend, pick up something, provoke OAs, open a door, block passage through a doorway, carry you on his shoulders through a field of burning rock. A re-fluffed cloud of daggers cannot do that. It can attack. That is all. While I agree some of the better toys should be left for psions, beguilers, illusionists, or necromancer separate classes; the wizard's power to bluff or control his foes (for a limited time) is nearly iconic. I don't need loyal minion-making spells, I want "lets turn that guy against his foes for the combat" spells. This is another "break the X damage + Y effect" system. We used to have spells that made foes flee. Or catch diseases. Or slip and slide of zero friction surfaces, etc. It seemed some spell effects could have been fixed so as not to be the deadly insta-kills they were and yet be viable (check out sleep) but many were just kicked down the road, or worse, removed all together. I agree with you in theory; fighters and martial PCs needed something better than general feats to make them interesting. And wizards needed less "save-or-loose" style magic (be it against death, entrapment, or whatever) but I think they went a bit too far by turning everything into damage + effect and then making the effect a secondary consideration (mostly due to the save system making status ailments mostly inconviences). I wanted the wizard and cleric brought down a peg or two, but they appear to have gone a bit too far...</blockquote>

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