Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Disappointed in 4e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Zustiur" data-source="post: 4552939" data-attributes="member: 1544"><p>Oh really? So if the party has a pre-planned strategy, that relies on the character winking, is it still not affecting resolution? Either winking is a [free] action, or it is not. Its status as an action should not alter based on external circumstances. Either the character can wink, (regardless of impact on resolution) or he can't. You claim that anything that <em>can</em> have an impact on resolution, such as giving some pre-determined signal, is an action. Then winking is an action. If you're unconscious you are not allowed to take actions.</p><p></p><p>Just like if you're paralyzed by any other means. Let's take the obvious example - petrified. The rules for petrified include 'you have been turned to stone. You can't take actions'. Would you rule that a petrified character can attempt to stand, or wink at someone? I wouldn't! It's the same rule at heart (take no actions), so why would you treat it any differently?</p><p></p><p>Dancing a jig, as it was first described, had no impact either. It was silly, yes, but it was only stated to make a point. The choice of jig was a bad one for the course of the discussion, but the point stands. Essentially the question is 'where do you draw the line?'</p><p>Evidently you draw it where it can have an effect on resolution. But I argue that is a double standard because what can or can't have an affect on resolution is entirely circumstantial.</p><p></p><p>Taking the earlier example of the ogre hitting a character when he stands up: If there is no monster within reach, and the character immediately falls prone again, then by your logic, there was no impact on resolution, and therefore standing up then falling over is entirely acceptable, and is not an action. By extension, standing up, dancing an ironic jig, and then falling over, does not affect the outcome of the battle, and can be done.</p><p></p><p>Finally, take this to it's logical extreme. 4E does not include 'dead' as a status (for obvious reasons), but if it did what would it look like? I suggest something like this</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You can't take actions</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You can't receive healing</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You can be brought back to life by a raise dead ritual</li> </ul><p></p><p>Would you rule that a dead character can wink because it has no affect on resolution?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zustiur, post: 4552939, member: 1544"] Oh really? So if the party has a pre-planned strategy, that relies on the character winking, is it still not affecting resolution? Either winking is a [free] action, or it is not. Its status as an action should not alter based on external circumstances. Either the character can wink, (regardless of impact on resolution) or he can't. You claim that anything that [I]can[/I] have an impact on resolution, such as giving some pre-determined signal, is an action. Then winking is an action. If you're unconscious you are not allowed to take actions. Just like if you're paralyzed by any other means. Let's take the obvious example - petrified. The rules for petrified include 'you have been turned to stone. You can't take actions'. Would you rule that a petrified character can attempt to stand, or wink at someone? I wouldn't! It's the same rule at heart (take no actions), so why would you treat it any differently? Dancing a jig, as it was first described, had no impact either. It was silly, yes, but it was only stated to make a point. The choice of jig was a bad one for the course of the discussion, but the point stands. Essentially the question is 'where do you draw the line?' Evidently you draw it where it can have an effect on resolution. But I argue that is a double standard because what can or can't have an affect on resolution is entirely circumstantial. Taking the earlier example of the ogre hitting a character when he stands up: If there is no monster within reach, and the character immediately falls prone again, then by your logic, there was no impact on resolution, and therefore standing up then falling over is entirely acceptable, and is not an action. By extension, standing up, dancing an ironic jig, and then falling over, does not affect the outcome of the battle, and can be done. Finally, take this to it's logical extreme. 4E does not include 'dead' as a status (for obvious reasons), but if it did what would it look like? I suggest something like this [LIST] [*]You can't take actions [*]You can't receive healing [*]You can be brought back to life by a raise dead ritual [/LIST] Would you rule that a dead character can wink because it has no affect on resolution? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Disappointed in 4e
Top