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<blockquote data-quote="CovertOps" data-source="post: 5283800" data-attributes="member: 65152">The following is an explanation of point 2.I just want to add to this a bit.&nbsp; The primary reason not to use disarm in 4e is this.&nbsp; If you start with the logic that if the PCs can do it so can the monsters.&nbsp; Reasonable right?&nbsp; The problem with that is the math involved in calculating PC attacks vs Monster attacks.&nbsp; Monster attacks are based completely on the level of the creature and usually have nothing to do with the weapon they are holding.&nbsp; This means that disarming a monster doesn't really do anything (mechanically) in the game world.&nbsp; PCs on the other hand take massive penalties to hit and damage when disarmed.&nbsp; For the worst example I'll use a level 30 character.&nbsp; By level 30 you'll have a +6 weapon and if that PC is using a Long Sword then being disarmed just gave that PC a whopping -9 to hit (-6 from the enhancement bonus of the weapon and -3 from the proficiency bonus).&nbsp; Also his or her damage just went from a d8 to a d3 (unarmed).&nbsp; With a typical at-will power doing 2[W] at level 21+ that means you just went from 2d8 + 6(enhancement) to 2d3 on at-will attacks and that doesn't even consider encounters or dailies.&nbsp; I also agree with his other two points and suggest that if someone wants to use &quot;disarm&quot; then you create a new &quot;condition&quot; called &quot;Disarmed&quot; and give it some penalties like the other conditions found in the PHB and as suggested balance it against other hampering powers (above suggested Vicious Mockery).Personally I'm of the camp 0 hp = disarmed, but I feel that anyone who wants to try and add disarm to their game should be armed not just with what you shouldn't do, but why you shouldn't do it because it gives you the understanding of the consequences of the changes you might make.&nbsp; I don't know any DM that wants to break their game and this is one of those areas where if you poke it too hard you will.&nbsp; This path leads back to the one trick pony and let me tell you how well we ate when that sacred cow was butchered with 4e.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CovertOps, post: 5283800, member: 65152"] The following is an explanation of point 2. I just want to add to this a bit. The primary reason not to use disarm in 4e is this. If you start with the logic that if the PCs can do it so can the monsters. Reasonable right? The problem with that is the math involved in calculating PC attacks vs Monster attacks. Monster attacks are based completely on the level of the creature and usually have nothing to do with the weapon they are holding. This means that disarming a monster doesn't really do anything (mechanically) in the game world. PCs on the other hand take massive penalties to hit and damage when disarmed. For the worst example I'll use a level 30 character. By level 30 you'll have a +6 weapon and if that PC is using a Long Sword then being disarmed just gave that PC a whopping -9 to hit (-6 from the enhancement bonus of the weapon and -3 from the proficiency bonus). Also his or her damage just went from a d8 to a d3 (unarmed). With a typical at-will power doing 2[W] at level 21+ that means you just went from 2d8 + 6(enhancement) to 2d3 on at-will attacks and that doesn't even consider encounters or dailies. I also agree with his other two points and suggest that if someone wants to use "disarm" then you create a new "condition" called "Disarmed" and give it some penalties like the other conditions found in the PHB and as suggested balance it against other hampering powers (above suggested Vicious Mockery). Personally I'm of the camp 0 hp = disarmed, but I feel that anyone who wants to try and add disarm to their game should be armed not just with what you shouldn't do, but [i]why[/i] you shouldn't do it because it gives you the understanding of the consequences of the changes you might make. I don't know any DM that wants to break their game and this is one of those areas where if you poke it too hard you will. This path leads back to the one trick pony and let me tell you how well we ate when that sacred cow was butchered with 4e. [/QUOTE]

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