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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8805274" data-attributes="member: 6877472">Going back to the V:tM disconnect, I think the most telling mechanics here are Golconda and Diablerie (as much as you can call Golconda a mechanic), and how Humanity itself functions.So by maintaining a high Humanity and dumping points into your Virtues, it's remotely possible (if the Storyteller even wants this in their Chronicle; many I've talked to feel this is hokey and if it ever happened, should be a one time deal) to achieve a state of enlightenment which either makes your a godly vampire, with no trait maximum for Disciplines and the ability to go much longer without blood....or become mortal again!  You know, give up your clinical immortality and cool powers so you can retire your character, while the rest of your Coterie continues being powerful bloated ticks.Meanwhile, by performing a miserable act of inhuman cannibalism, you can absorb the soul of another vampire (insert a cry of "There can be only one!" here) to potentially increase your trait maximum, blood reserves, ability to spend blood, and possibly free traits!  It does cost at least one Humanity, makes it possible for people to find out your crime, and gives you a nasty tendency to want to do it again, but in a game as stratified as Vampire, where the Elders are the haves and you are the have nots, this is the only way to gain an Elder's power and respect (and no matter what the books claim about how other Elders see you, many powerful NPC's in the game's world have committed Diablerie and gone on to reach great heights in even the Camarilla!).As if all this wasn't bad enough, then the Sabbat come knocking on your door, offering you another way to gain almost all the benefits of Humanity, and let you be as much of a monster as you want!When you consider Humanity as a trait that rarely has a positive benefit (looking less monstrous, having more dice available during the day, and potentially preventing you from performing some monstrous act while in frenzy) and generally has a negative benefit (don't steal kids, or you might lose Humanity- and try not to think about what taking people's blood against their will really means!), it's no wonder players often decided having a Humanity of about 6 or so was ideal, and if they were really worried about the other negatives, eh, just spend a few points to get Blush of Health and Light Sleeper!Too much stick, not enough carrot.  And V5 is even worse about this, to the point it's not even really cool to be a vampire, since any time you use your powers (actually, just about any time you take any action, from my experience), you could suddenly find yourself unable to use them and enter a Hunger state where you have to get blood or else!Imagine telling a D&D player "oh hey, if you roll three ones, you lose all your special abilities until you go murder someone"; I'm sure that would go over especially well.It doesn't help that, while fictional vampires might brood and whine about the unbearable weight of their immortal existence, with it's incredible powers and often eternal sexiness, most of them are very happy to be vampires when you get right down to it, and this is exactly what drew players into the game!But hey, it's still better than Werewolf, which, as a "horror" game consists of ludicrous gibs and jump scares, and you can do anything you want pretty much, with the only downsides being the scorn of your fellow werebeasts and some vaguely defined state of self-destructive depression.</blockquote>

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