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<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 7340069" data-attributes="member: 710"><p>They showed the conflict between science and battle when it came to the conflict between Lorca and Stamets, or the conflict about the use and fate of the Tardigrade.</p><p>They showed the conflict between battle and truth when it came to Stamet's treatmant and its fallout, how people were ordered to act against the rules to save them.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think they pretty clearly show the tide turning by example. The first succesful tactical use of the Discovery's spore drive turns a defeat potentially killing thousands to civilians into a victory. That makes it pretty clear what the Discovery can do for Starfleet.</p><p></p><p>And we also see the turn of the tide by example, when the Discovery is trying to save the Gagarin but fails because the Klingon ships cloak and decloak, making it harder to actaully protect their allied ship from enemy firepower.</p><p></p><p>And we see again what a change the Cloaking tech really meant when the Discovery blows up the Sarcaphogus ship.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Saving Sarek is a pretty much standard good-guys-would-do-this story and it works out well. </p><p></p><p>They weren't punished for saving the rebels, nor was their punishment for bonding with Mirror!Saru. Saving the rebels might not have worked in the end (though if I was a rebel, I would try to ask for a longer delay than I atually needed, just to be on the safe side), but not because they were "good guys", but because the evil guys struck earlier. And Burnham still got a deeper insight into the Klingon mind out of it then she had before.</p><p> Also, bonding with MIrror!Saru might have saved Burnham's life. (And in case you were confused and alluding to it- Burnham doesn't eat Mirror!Saru. How would Saru get aboard the Imperial ship from the Shenzou? He wasn't aboard Burnham's and Lorca's shuttle.)</p><p></p><p>And if you want to show good triumph over evil, you need to show how hard being good can be - the victory will come eventually, but it requires sacrifices and dealing with setback without sacrificing your ideals. If good was easy, everyone would be good. But being designed for a serialized format, the triumph of good can happen at the end of a season, not at the end of each episode.</p><p></p><p></p><p>mysters like the black badges. Or just the mystery of the black badges, Full Stop?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think Saru's behavior toward Burnham has changed considerably over the season.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The Internet seeing a twist coming a mile away means that the twist was well executed, because it didn't come out of nowhere, but was well prepared, with carefully placed hints. The writers didn't pull that out of their collective's asses, they did put in the work to make it happen. </p><p>I know a few viewers that didn't spend the time on reddit or other forums analyzing all the clues, and the twists still did surprise them - but not in the way that they felt they came out of nowhere. They just hadn't connected the dots (or noticed all the dots.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Quite the contrary, this was a very refreshing way to tell the story, because usually (and there have been enough to use the term "usually"), the time loop episodes always focus on the looper, instead of the individuals caught unknowingly in the loop.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No, it's not, because I think Discovery's first season is vastly superior to TNG's first season. </p><p></p><p></p><p>First season TOS stood up pretty well IMO, too. They nailed the three main characters pretty well early on, I think.</p><p></p><p>But particularly TNG doesn't hold up so well. Discovery stands a lot better, with the main cast having found in their roles basically immediately, and the writers knowing how to interact with them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 7340069, member: 710"] They showed the conflict between science and battle when it came to the conflict between Lorca and Stamets, or the conflict about the use and fate of the Tardigrade. They showed the conflict between battle and truth when it came to Stamet's treatmant and its fallout, how people were ordered to act against the rules to save them. I think they pretty clearly show the tide turning by example. The first succesful tactical use of the Discovery's spore drive turns a defeat potentially killing thousands to civilians into a victory. That makes it pretty clear what the Discovery can do for Starfleet. And we also see the turn of the tide by example, when the Discovery is trying to save the Gagarin but fails because the Klingon ships cloak and decloak, making it harder to actaully protect their allied ship from enemy firepower. And we see again what a change the Cloaking tech really meant when the Discovery blows up the Sarcaphogus ship. Saving Sarek is a pretty much standard good-guys-would-do-this story and it works out well. They weren't punished for saving the rebels, nor was their punishment for bonding with Mirror!Saru. Saving the rebels might not have worked in the end (though if I was a rebel, I would try to ask for a longer delay than I atually needed, just to be on the safe side), but not because they were "good guys", but because the evil guys struck earlier. And Burnham still got a deeper insight into the Klingon mind out of it then she had before. Also, bonding with MIrror!Saru might have saved Burnham's life. (And in case you were confused and alluding to it- Burnham doesn't eat Mirror!Saru. How would Saru get aboard the Imperial ship from the Shenzou? He wasn't aboard Burnham's and Lorca's shuttle.) And if you want to show good triumph over evil, you need to show how hard being good can be - the victory will come eventually, but it requires sacrifices and dealing with setback without sacrificing your ideals. If good was easy, everyone would be good. But being designed for a serialized format, the triumph of good can happen at the end of a season, not at the end of each episode. mysters like the black badges. Or just the mystery of the black badges, Full Stop? I think Saru's behavior toward Burnham has changed considerably over the season. The Internet seeing a twist coming a mile away means that the twist was well executed, because it didn't come out of nowhere, but was well prepared, with carefully placed hints. The writers didn't pull that out of their collective's asses, they did put in the work to make it happen. I know a few viewers that didn't spend the time on reddit or other forums analyzing all the clues, and the twists still did surprise them - but not in the way that they felt they came out of nowhere. They just hadn't connected the dots (or noticed all the dots.) Quite the contrary, this was a very refreshing way to tell the story, because usually (and there have been enough to use the term "usually"), the time loop episodes always focus on the looper, instead of the individuals caught unknowingly in the loop. No, it's not, because I think Discovery's first season is vastly superior to TNG's first season. First season TOS stood up pretty well IMO, too. They nailed the three main characters pretty well early on, I think. But particularly TNG doesn't hold up so well. Discovery stands a lot better, with the main cast having found in their roles basically immediately, and the writers knowing how to interact with them. [/QUOTE]
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