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Discuss: Combat as War in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8264945" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>It means I want the game mechanics to (within reason) as far as possible be a representation of the physics of the game world; consistent and solid such that I, in character, have a firm foundation on which to roleplay and can not only figure out how things work but rely on the fact that barring unexpected developments they're always going to work that way.</p><p></p><p>I'd rather end up with bad execution of a good idea than good execution of a bad idea; because in the latter case you're still stuck with a bad idea no matter how well it's been realized; while in the former you can always try to fix it yourself.</p><p></p><p>And as the same would be true if the ogre had the same absolute stats all the way along, there's no need to change them.</p><p></p><p>Not sure what you mean here.</p><p></p><p>Yes. Absolutely yes.</p><p></p><p>Exactly, because within the game world <em>that entity doesn't change</em> - it's still the same entity, with the same strengths and weaknesses, the same inherent degree of toughness relative to everything else in the setting, and so forth. Sure, the relative power level of the PCs might have changed in comparison to our poor little rat, but that should not and does not cause any material change to the rat.</p><p></p><p>Except those relative differences are being measured only in comparison to the PCs, where I want the relative differences to be measured against the <em>whole setting</em>, of which the PCs are just a little tiny part. Within the setting, the rat is and always will be tougher than a kitten and less tough than an orc; and that shouldn't change just because it's a PC looking at it.</p><p></p><p>And yes, this means I have no use whatsoever for the idea of minions.</p><p></p><p>The 4e DMG (the first one) begs to differ, so I'll have to take your word for this.</p><p></p><p>I'm saying that the less swingy it gets overall, the narrower a creature's viable-but-not-deadly-threat range becomes.</p><p></p><p>Swingy means a 1st-level party can threaten a giant while that same giant can be a menace for a 7th level party or even higher. Non-swingy means that the giant will consistently wipe the floor with 3rd-levels, be a viable threat to 4ths and 5ths, and get creamed every time by 6th-levels or higher.</p><p></p><p>This is perhaps where we differ in underlying philosophy: I just don't take it as seriously as all that. I play to have fun, and characters - particularly at low level - can be easy come, easy go. At mid-to-high level revival effects come into play, making it easier to keep a character going for the long run.</p><p></p><p>Further, though there's all sorts of things you can do in the game to skew the odds in your favour, underneath everything it's all a matter of luck...much as it would be for the characters, were they real; similar to some real-life commando units in wartime where x-% casualties per mission were a known thing and yet people still signed up to do it, hoping they'd be the lucky ones who survived.</p><p></p><p>10% death chance per encounter is a bit hyperbolic for non-gonzo play; as that'd turn over the whole party in maybe 3 or 4 sessions. 10% death chance per whole adventure, sure; in a party of 5 that'd be one death per two adventures, hardly a terrifying rate.</p><p></p><p>OK, those aren't bad terms; and I fall in the c-as-x side. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Frequently brushing against death and-or dropping perilously low can and does happen in early edition games as well; the difference being they're not nearly as hesitant about going that last step and pushing you off the cliff if that's how the dice fall.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8264945, member: 29398"] It means I want the game mechanics to (within reason) as far as possible be a representation of the physics of the game world; consistent and solid such that I, in character, have a firm foundation on which to roleplay and can not only figure out how things work but rely on the fact that barring unexpected developments they're always going to work that way. I'd rather end up with bad execution of a good idea than good execution of a bad idea; because in the latter case you're still stuck with a bad idea no matter how well it's been realized; while in the former you can always try to fix it yourself. And as the same would be true if the ogre had the same absolute stats all the way along, there's no need to change them. Not sure what you mean here. Yes. Absolutely yes. Exactly, because within the game world [I]that entity doesn't change[/I] - it's still the same entity, with the same strengths and weaknesses, the same inherent degree of toughness relative to everything else in the setting, and so forth. Sure, the relative power level of the PCs might have changed in comparison to our poor little rat, but that should not and does not cause any material change to the rat. Except those relative differences are being measured only in comparison to the PCs, where I want the relative differences to be measured against the [I]whole setting[/I], of which the PCs are just a little tiny part. Within the setting, the rat is and always will be tougher than a kitten and less tough than an orc; and that shouldn't change just because it's a PC looking at it. And yes, this means I have no use whatsoever for the idea of minions. The 4e DMG (the first one) begs to differ, so I'll have to take your word for this. I'm saying that the less swingy it gets overall, the narrower a creature's viable-but-not-deadly-threat range becomes. Swingy means a 1st-level party can threaten a giant while that same giant can be a menace for a 7th level party or even higher. Non-swingy means that the giant will consistently wipe the floor with 3rd-levels, be a viable threat to 4ths and 5ths, and get creamed every time by 6th-levels or higher. This is perhaps where we differ in underlying philosophy: I just don't take it as seriously as all that. I play to have fun, and characters - particularly at low level - can be easy come, easy go. At mid-to-high level revival effects come into play, making it easier to keep a character going for the long run. Further, though there's all sorts of things you can do in the game to skew the odds in your favour, underneath everything it's all a matter of luck...much as it would be for the characters, were they real; similar to some real-life commando units in wartime where x-% casualties per mission were a known thing and yet people still signed up to do it, hoping they'd be the lucky ones who survived. 10% death chance per encounter is a bit hyperbolic for non-gonzo play; as that'd turn over the whole party in maybe 3 or 4 sessions. 10% death chance per whole adventure, sure; in a party of 5 that'd be one death per two adventures, hardly a terrifying rate. OK, those aren't bad terms; and I fall in the c-as-x side. :) Frequently brushing against death and-or dropping perilously low can and does happen in early edition games as well; the difference being they're not nearly as hesitant about going that last step and pushing you off the cliff if that's how the dice fall. [/QUOTE]
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