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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pukunui" data-source="post: 4545907" data-attributes="member: 54629">I certainly noticed and let me tell you, I was shocked to see you saying something positive about 4e! I've only ever seen you complaining about it ... in fact, it's somewhat ironic that you are warming to it while I am finding that I don't like it that much after all.You think they killed the 15 minute work day? I think they made it worse! Not because of the dailies but because of the healing surges. Once you're out of those - and in my group that happens pretty damn quickly - then you literally CANNOT go any further.One time not so long ago my guys were so determined to rest after only a short (in-game) bit of adventuring - during which time the fighter used up every single one of his surges - that they gladly spent the better part of 24 hours lounging around doing nothing in the dungeon (after barricading themselves in, of course) just so they could get another extended rest. Of course, I didn't let them get away with it without a fight ... but still. Comparing that to my DMing experiences with 3e and I would say that the 15 minute adventuring day has only gotten worse because in 3e the PCs could keep going so long as they had cure potions or wands or whatever. You can't do that in 4e because healing magic is all keyed off surges and if you're out of those, you're out of healing.I see the illusion of choice, at least with the classes in the PHB ... but when you get down to it, since half of a class's powers are generally geared towards one or the other of the two builds, your actual choice is generally less than it first appears. Add to that the point that Stalker0 made about certain powers being obviously superior to others and your choice is diminished even further ... and the fact that I have to rely on supplements to increase my choice is not cool.</blockquote>

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