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<blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8340442" data-attributes="member: 7023840">On this, specifically, I would say that D&amp;D has always been both a composite and its own thing; however:1. D&amp;D, originally, was based primarily in S&amp;S tropes, and glommed on to the Tolkien-esque &quot;high fantasy&quot; trappings because, um, Tolkien was popular during the 1970s. Saying D&amp;D was high fantasy is similar to saying that Led Zeppelin was high fantasy- it had it, but it wasn't of it. If that makes sense. Sure, no one should buy what Gygax had to say (the influence of Tolien in some areas was indisputable), but the overall influence of the S&amp;S works is even greater.2. The alignment system of OD&amp;D was hardcore Moorcock. Making it even more codified in early AD&amp;D didn't lessen the influences.3. The multiple material worlds, gonzo nature of the early D&amp;D was also exceptionally in keeping with S&amp;S. The multiverse, including the existence of &quot;Earth&quot; is practically lifted from The Swords of Lankhmar.4. Even the early modules and the hoary tropes (what adventures wait for us at ye olde inne!) are firmly based in S&amp;S genre.Personally, I would say that the shift away from the composite/heavy S&amp;S model in D&amp;D to more explicit Tolkien-esque occurred with ... Dragonlance. But that's neither here nor there. Maybe an essay for another time. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Snarf Zagyg, post: 8340442, member: 7023840"] On this, specifically, I would say that D&D has always been both a composite and its own thing; [I]however[/I]: 1. D&D, originally, was based primarily in S&S tropes, and glommed on to the Tolkien-esque "high fantasy" trappings because, um, Tolkien was popular during the 1970s. Saying D&D was high fantasy is similar to saying that Led Zeppelin was high fantasy- it had it, but it wasn't of it. If that makes sense. Sure, no one should buy what Gygax had to say (the influence of Tolien in some areas was indisputable), but the overall influence of the S&S works is even greater. 2. The alignment system of OD&D was hardcore Moorcock. Making it even more codified in early AD&D didn't lessen the influences. 3. The multiple material worlds, gonzo nature of the early D&D was also exceptionally in keeping with S&S. The multiverse, including the existence of "Earth" is practically lifted from [I]The Swords of Lankhmar.[/I] 4. Even the early modules and the hoary tropes (what adventures wait for us at ye olde inne!) are firmly based in S&S genre. Personally, I would say that the shift away from the composite/heavy S&S model in D&D to more explicit Tolkien-esque occurred with ... Dragonlance. But that's neither here nor there. Maybe an essay for another time. :) [/QUOTE]

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