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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8346323" data-attributes="member: 12731">Sigh. Discussing S&amp;S as if it's an intellectual feat to find flaws in it.I like my S&amp;S trashy and visceral and indefensible. I find it infinitely more rewarding and interesting to highlight what is good and attractive about the genre than poking holes in it. Are we fans of S&amp;S or are we not?Let's instead hold up the beefcake and cheesecake as something worthy, as something useful in order to create the atmosphere and imagery that is S&amp;S! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />If you don't care for inequality, and if you need equal opportunities for every concept of character - then just play in another genre. To me S&amp;S is very much driven by testosterone, and trying to get rid of that is just throwing out the baby with the bathwater.Infinitely more constructive than easy sniping would be for y'all to tell us what aspects of S&amp;S is it that you really do like!Because if your list ends up containing lots of things S&amp;S share with other fantasy genres, and perhaps very few of the things that are decidedly Swordy or Sorcerous, then I've got news for you: you're not really a fan of S&amp;S, and you're mostly trying to make a round peg fit a square hole.To me S&amp;S most of all offers the promise of unpuritan role-playing. Only a puritan would confuse that for juvenile.You play S&amp;S when you need to cleanse your palate after too much of the Americanized fantasy that is D&amp;D. A genre that is decidedly restricted and self-censored. If you can describe your S&amp;S scenario on an American &quot;family friendly&quot; forum without getting censored or booted something is wrong! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />S&amp;S needs to be the European arthouse movie you watch after watching too many Marvel superhero movies. Just look at the new(ish) Conan and John Carter movies to see what a dumpster fire of an idea it is to &quot;clean up&quot; S&amp;S.Have a nice day, everybody <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8346323, member: 12731"] Sigh. Discussing S&S as if it's an intellectual feat to find flaws in it. I [B]like[/B] my S&S trashy and visceral and indefensible. I find it infinitely more rewarding and interesting to highlight what is good and attractive about the genre than poking holes in it. Are we fans of S&S or are we not? Let's instead hold up the beefcake and cheesecake as something [I]worthy[/I], as something useful in order to create the atmosphere and imagery that is S&S! :) If you don't care for inequality, and if you need equal opportunities for every concept of character - then just play in another genre. To me S&S is very much driven by testosterone, and trying to get rid of that is just throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Infinitely more constructive than easy sniping would be for y'all to tell us what aspects of S&S is it that you really [B]do[/B] like! Because if your list ends up containing lots of things S&S share with other fantasy genres, and perhaps very few of the things that are decidedly Swordy or Sorcerous, then I've got news for you: you're not really a fan of S&S, and you're mostly trying to make a round peg fit a square hole. To me S&S most of all offers the promise of[I] unpuritan[/I] role-playing. Only a puritan would confuse that for juvenile. You play S&S when you need to cleanse your palate after too much of the Americanized fantasy that is D&D. A genre that is decidedly restricted and self-censored. If you can describe your S&S scenario on an American "family friendly" forum without getting censored or booted something is wrong! ;) S&S needs to be the European arthouse movie you watch after watching too many Marvel superhero movies. Just look at the new(ish) Conan and John Carter movies to see what a dumpster fire of an idea it is to "clean up" S&S. Have a nice day, everybody :) [/QUOTE]

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