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<blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8347733" data-attributes="member: 7023840">I've heard people say that recently (is that a thing?), and I think it's really stupid. No offense. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />That's like saying comedy is taken, not given. Or compliments are taken, not given. Why bother saying anything at all if it's all meaningless, only depending on what the listener hears?Really, though, it removes agency and intentionality from the speaker/artist. There are times when I want to offend. The ability to provoke, offend, and shock lies at core of artistic speech. Certainly true! But &quot;death metal&quot; is a sub-genre of &quot;metal&quot; and in turn has spawned numerous sub-genres. Moreover, it is not necessary that every single death metal band be, for example, Cannibal Corpse. Or, for that matter, burn down churches. Which moves back to the point of the thread- going to my Lovecraft analogy, I really enjoy cosmic horror, and I grew up reading Lovecraft. But the point of Lovecraft, the defining characteristic of the cosmic horror genre, isn't the racism! When I think of S&amp;S, I don't think of it as being transgressive. Then again, I have a high bar for what constitutes transgressive- Conan and Fafhrd are not exactly Mapplethorpe in the '80s, or Burroughs in the '50s- instead, they reified the traditional societal roles of the time. Ahem.Instead, I view them as being modern- as acting very much in a way that is contrary to the 'small-c' conservative Tolkien-esque (Alexender, Lewis) &quot;high fantasy&quot; that was so .... boring. I love S&amp;S because, unlike high fantasy, it doesn't suck.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Snarf Zagyg, post: 8347733, member: 7023840"] I've heard people say that recently (is that a thing?), and I think it's really stupid. No offense. :) That's like saying comedy is taken, not given. Or compliments are taken, not given. Why bother saying anything at all if it's all meaningless, only depending on what the listener hears? Really, though, it removes agency and intentionality from the speaker/artist. There are times when I [I]want [/I]to offend. The ability to provoke, offend, and shock lies at core of artistic speech. Certainly true! But "death metal" is a sub-genre of "metal" and in turn has spawned numerous sub-genres. Moreover, it is not necessary that every single death metal band be, for example, Cannibal Corpse. Or, for that matter, burn down churches. Which moves back to the point of the thread- going to my Lovecraft analogy, I really enjoy cosmic horror, and I grew up reading Lovecraft. But the [I]point[/I] of Lovecraft, the [I]defining characteristic[/I] of the cosmic horror genre, isn't the racism! When I think of S&S, I don't think of it as being [I]transgressive. T[/I]hen again, I have a high bar for what constitutes transgressive- Conan and Fafhrd are not exactly Mapplethorpe in the '80s, or Burroughs in the '50s- instead, they reified the traditional societal roles of the time. Ahem. Instead, I view them as being modern- as acting very much in a way that is contrary to the 'small-c' conservative Tolkien-esque (Alexender, Lewis) "high fantasy" that was so .... boring. I love S&S because, unlike high fantasy, it doesn't suck. [/QUOTE]

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