discussing the character creation/leveling process

[Glak]

The d20 license says that you can't talk about making characters or going up in level. This is to require the purchase of the PHB or Modern book. Ok but what if I want to modify the process? For example, instead of rolling/buying ability scores I use a default array and change the rate at which additional points are gained. I have eliminated feats as well, but it seems like you aren't allowed to do that, as each character gets them at certain levels. I have a few other changes too, all designed to simplify the game and make NPC generation simple. How can I include this stuff?

If I can't legally include this stuff into a d20 product can I put it on my website as house rules? I'm assuming so, but I can say that they are strongly suggested? I'm not trying to get out of the requirement of having the user purchase a WotC product but I don't like their character creation or leveling processes.

 

[jmucchiello]

The d20 license says that you can't talk about making characters or going up in level. This is to require the purchase of the PHB or Modern book. Ok but what if I want to modify the process? For example, instead of rolling/buying ability scores I use a default array and change the rate at which additional points are gained. I have eliminated feats as well, but it seems like you aren't allowed to do that, as each character gets them at certain levels. I have a few other changes too, all designed to simplify the game and make NPC generation simple. How can I include this stuff?

Don't put the d20 logo on your work. What does it do for you that you can't do otherwise?

If I can't legally include this stuff into a d20 product can I put it on my website as house rules? I'm assuming so, but I can say that they are strongly suggested? I'm not trying to get out of the requirement of having the user purchase a WotC product but I don't like their character creation or leveling processes.

You are treading dangerous waters if your "house rules" website are associated with the book in an official capacity.

What kind of product is this that anyone would care about how NPCs are generated?

 

[Glak]

Hmm ok, yeah maybe I should just leave it up to the individual DMs to figure out.

My system is basic d20 except that nearly all of the modifiers are removed and the rules are relaxed to put the DM back into the game, none of this rule-oriented play. Basically there is no math and no need to look things up, allowing for on the fly swashbuckling play.

On the other hand there is a new d20 pdf out which Buy the Numbers which, from its sales pitch (haven't read it), seems like it ignores the requirement. Mutants and Masterminds also tells you how to create a character. Maybe there is a detail that I haven't figured out yet.

 

[The Sigil]

On the other hand there is a new d20 pdf out which Buy the Numbers which, from its sales pitch (haven't read it), seems like it ignores the requirement. Mutants and Masterminds also tells you how to create a character. Maybe there is a detail that I haven't figured out yet.

The detail you're overlooking is that both Buy the Numbers and Mutants and Masterminds are OGL-only products - they aren't d20 products (they don't use the d20 logo). In fact there are several products out there that are in a similar boat; OGL Ancients from Mongoose, the Book of Erotic Fantasy from Valar, and some of the Scarred Lands location books come to mind (and that may be the ONLY time you'll see me mention the BoEF in the same thread as Buy the Numbers LOL).

In fact, back when I first announced the Buy the Numbers, I noted that because it dealt with character advancement, it would not be d20, only OGL - despite the fact that most of my products at the time WERE d20 - for this very reason.

--The Sigil

 

[Glak]

oh ok thanks, now everything is cleared up. I guess a mix of d20 and OGL products is the way to go then. I was confused because Buy the Numbers is listed in the d20 section of RPG Now.

 

[DaveStebbins]

oh ok thanks, now everything is cleared up. I guess a mix of d20 and OGL products is the way to go then. I was confused because Buy the Numbers is listed in the d20 section of RPG Now.

It, like most other d20 products, uses the d20 rules, but not the d20 logo or the d20 System Trademark License (which covers the rules to follow to use the logo). It is released as an OGL product and must therefore follow only the rules in the Open Gaming License. Though they often use a common rules set, the licenses and what they cover and the restrictions they impose, are very different. If you are planning on doing a product under either or both licenses, I suggest you do your homework and find out what they both entail.

One place to start is the mailing lists at the OpenGaming Foundation. I'd suggest going through the list archives, but they've been down for many months and will hopefully be fixed sometime soon.

Another good place to start used to be the d20 reference pages here at EN World, but they have become increasingly hard to find with each site update (sorry, no working link).

As always, when entering a license agreement, it is also best to consult a lawyer, as any advice received over the internet might be from a crackpot like me and be of dubious worth.

-Dave

 

[Morrus]

Another good place to start used to be the d20 reference pages here at EN World, but they have become increasingly hard to find with each site update (sorry, no working link).

Sticky thread, top of d20 Publishers forum.

Or the Articles section.

 

[Prest0]

On a semi-related note, I've noticed more products lately claiming they are for "d20 Modern" in their press/advertising. I thought that went against the d20 System license. I was under the impression you had to say something like "a modern d20 System(tm)" supplement/adventure/etc. Even if you don't use the d20 logo, "d20 Modern" is still their trademark and it was declared off-limits. Am I interpreting this correctly? Did something change and I miss it?

Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I'm not trying to slight the folks who are using it in their pr. Personally I think WotC should allow its use. But it's their rules (as I understand them), so we've been trying to follow them.

 

[The Sigil]

It, like most other d20 products, uses the d20 rules, but not the d20 logo or the d20 System Trademark License (which covers the rules to follow to use the logo).

Of course, since I'm using the OGL to publish Buy the Numbers, and "d20" is a trademark, I'm forbidden by the OGL to actually come right out and say that (claim compatibility) with regard to Buy the Numbers. But thanks for your very interesting comment, Dave.

It is released as an OGL product and must therefore follow only the rules in the Open Gaming License. Though they often use a common rules set, the licenses and what they cover and the restrictions they impose, are very different. If you are planning on doing a product under either or both licenses, I suggest you do your homework and find out what they both entail.

One place to start is the mailing lists at the OpenGaming Foundation. I'd suggest going through the list archives, but they've been down for many months and will hopefully be fixed sometime soon.

The OGF-L, thankfully, has a backup archive...

http://www.mail-archive.com/ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org/

As always, when entering a license agreement, it is also best to consult a lawyer, as any advice received over the internet might be from a crackpot like me and be of dubious worth.

And usually comes with disclaimers like IANAL, TINLA, etc.

--The Sigil

I Am Not A Lawyer, This Is Not Legal Advice

 

[DaveStebbins]

Sticky thread, top of d20 Publishers forum.

Or the Articles section.

Thanks, Morrus. That was always such a great source of info and basic advice. I'm glad to see it in such a place of prominence, where only an unobservant twit (like me) can miss it.