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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Levistus's_Leviathan" data-source="post: 8780473" data-attributes="member: 7023887">But the aristocracy would be paranoid that the mages would overthrow them (because mages have more power than they would). So in that situation, either the mages eventually overthrow the aristocracy and become the new aristocracy, the aristocracy learns magic in order to maintain their power (Bard/Wizard school, selling their soul/children to become a Warlock, etc), or the aristocracy has a non-core 5e way of controlling the mages. I'm not saying a single casting of Suggestion would let you take over the nation. I'm saying that court mages periodically using Suggestion to change the monarch's position on a certain issue would let them control the government. Also, Mind Blank is an 8th level spell. Suggestion is just 2nd level. Mind Blank would require a 15th-level spellcaster repeatedly casting the spell on you in order to protect a non-mage from their mage servants. I'll say it again: Unless the government leaders had some way to protect themselves against magic or control mages, the mages could easily and would eventually take control of the government (even if they don't do it obviously and just control the leaders through magic and blackmail). Can people be born skilled hackers? Can those skilled hackers somehow hack into people's brains and mind control them (even if temporarily)? Can that hacker that learned your secrets and is blackmailing you also spontaneously combust you if you don't do what they want you to do? If you answer no to any of these questions, this is a bad analogy. There is a major difference between the capabilities of mages and hackers/warriors. You're missing my point. I'm not saying that I want every form of government in every world to be some form of magocracy. This thread is a thought experiment meant to help worldbuilding and encourage critical thinking. I am absolutely okay with settings where mages don't rule everything. I like Ravenloft quite a bit, and most of its "rulers" aren't mages. They're just terrible people from throughout the Multiverse that the Dark Powers decided to condemn to eternal(ish) damnation for unknown reasons. Ravenloft has a very valid explanation for why not all of its domains of dread are ruled by mages: because mages don't have a choice in the matter. The godlike Dark Powers choose the Dark Lords of Ravenloft. There is a strong limitation on the political capabilities of mages in Ravenloft, so the "mages aren't in control of everything" is a very justified trope in the setting, just like it is in Dragon Age. This thread is meant to point out that if left unchecked, mages will take control of basically everything. This is a fact. It's inevitable. They will take control eventually, and if they don't, the setting either ignores this fact or chose to introduce some factor to justify why they haven't yet. The Mutants in X-Men haven't taken over yet because a) Mutants are relatively new to the world and b) other heroes prevent Magneto from taking over. If the world isn't largely controlled by mages, there should be an explanation. And I think finding those explanations can be really interesting and great for making the world feel more dynamic and real. That's the point of this thread. To encourage making the worlds feel more real. Not encouraging people to add more Magocracies in their settings, but to explore the fact that they probably haven't taken control of everything yet for a variety of reasons.</blockquote>

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