Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
Playing the Game
Play by Post
Living Worlds
Living EN World
(Discussion) Character Points Change Issue
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Guilt Puppy" data-source="post: 1611261" data-attributes="member: 6521"><p>Looks like I missed the vote, but I'm more interested in arguing, anyway.</p><p></p><p>- For one, while the statistical argument is interesting from a math geek stand-point, I don't know if it's really applicable. While your average 4d6 character is worth between 31-32 points in point-buy, a 31-32 point character is still going to be better (than the <em>average</em>), at least; point buy allows more customization, meaning more optimization... In other words, you get more bang for your buck. Of course, how many points to you knock off to even it out? It's a tough call.</p><p></p><p>- Going to 33 to "allow" people to have odd stats is, IMO, backwards. If someone wants odd stats (for that "I got a cookie" feeling at 4th/8th et cetera, which I can appreciate as much as anyone), then by all means, they should make some odd stats. You <em>can</em> do that with 30, you know. Really, the difference is: With 30 points, you'll create a character with an even number of odd stats; with 33, you'll create a character with an odd number of odd stats. And with 33 the character will be more powerful.</p><p></p><p>- Low stats are good. In my experience, a character with no stat lower than 14 is just as boring to play as a character with no stat higher than 14. (Actually, those low-ball characters can be fun too -- trying to be a utility player, making productive outs and all that, can be pretty satisfying.)</p><p></p><p>- I'm currently guilty (yay!) of playing one of the most min-maxed characters in ENWorld (see sig)... That was as much in order to preserve the low stats as it was to load up the high stats. I would have been quite happy with 16's or 17's where the 18's are now -- but my plans to make a grumbling, bumbling, foul-mouthed dwarf left me with too many points to play with.</p><p></p><p>- Re: Survival stats, I've played plenty of penalty-to-con characters from first level, and the vast majority of them lived to see the light of higher hit dice. Generally, they've outlived the gutsy dwarf barbarians <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> who'd charge right into anything thinking their 17 hit points made them invincible.</p><p></p><p>- I'd also like to add that "I want to make my character more interesting" isn't really a better argument than "I'd like to make my character more powerful." If every character is really cool in a lot of ways right from the beginning, what do they develop into? Instead, why not start off with that charismatic, dual-wielding gladiator, except maybe she isn't so rough-and-tough yet; maybe she's downright <em>weak</em> to begin with. But she works hard, eats right, exercises daily, and most importantly picks up a few magic items, and suddenly she's earning her style points.</p><p></p><p>In short: I'd vote to <em>reduce</em> the starting point-buy to 28 or so, long before I'd even raise it to 31.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guilt Puppy, post: 1611261, member: 6521"] Looks like I missed the vote, but I'm more interested in arguing, anyway. - For one, while the statistical argument is interesting from a math geek stand-point, I don't know if it's really applicable. While your average 4d6 character is worth between 31-32 points in point-buy, a 31-32 point character is still going to be better (than the [i]average[/i]), at least; point buy allows more customization, meaning more optimization... In other words, you get more bang for your buck. Of course, how many points to you knock off to even it out? It's a tough call. - Going to 33 to "allow" people to have odd stats is, IMO, backwards. If someone wants odd stats (for that "I got a cookie" feeling at 4th/8th et cetera, which I can appreciate as much as anyone), then by all means, they should make some odd stats. You [i]can[/i] do that with 30, you know. Really, the difference is: With 30 points, you'll create a character with an even number of odd stats; with 33, you'll create a character with an odd number of odd stats. And with 33 the character will be more powerful. - Low stats are good. In my experience, a character with no stat lower than 14 is just as boring to play as a character with no stat higher than 14. (Actually, those low-ball characters can be fun too -- trying to be a utility player, making productive outs and all that, can be pretty satisfying.) - I'm currently guilty (yay!) of playing one of the most min-maxed characters in ENWorld (see sig)... That was as much in order to preserve the low stats as it was to load up the high stats. I would have been quite happy with 16's or 17's where the 18's are now -- but my plans to make a grumbling, bumbling, foul-mouthed dwarf left me with too many points to play with. - Re: Survival stats, I've played plenty of penalty-to-con characters from first level, and the vast majority of them lived to see the light of higher hit dice. Generally, they've outlived the gutsy dwarf barbarians :) who'd charge right into anything thinking their 17 hit points made them invincible. - I'd also like to add that "I want to make my character more interesting" isn't really a better argument than "I'd like to make my character more powerful." If every character is really cool in a lot of ways right from the beginning, what do they develop into? Instead, why not start off with that charismatic, dual-wielding gladiator, except maybe she isn't so rough-and-tough yet; maybe she's downright [i]weak[/i] to begin with. But she works hard, eats right, exercises daily, and most importantly picks up a few magic items, and suddenly she's earning her style points. In short: I'd vote to [i]reduce[/i] the starting point-buy to 28 or so, long before I'd even raise it to 31. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Playing the Game
Play by Post
Living Worlds
Living EN World
(Discussion) Character Points Change Issue
Top