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Discussion - General Discussion Thread '09
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<blockquote data-quote="Trouvere" data-source="post: 4932037" data-attributes="member: 37250"><p>Right. Let's take a look at the rectangle immediately east of the Orussus Region Map (ORM).</p><p></p><p>The <strong>Empire of Carduth</strong> lies somewhere east of the Stonespike Mountains. Its capital city is <strong>Lhondaio</strong>. Nurlan Naibi is a native of this city. His mentor was named Shkarna. As far as I know, these are the only Carduthian names we know (assuming Shkarna is also from Carduth).</p><p></p><p>From the <a href="http://bluwiki.com/go/Living_ENWorld:Carduth" target="_blank">wiki</a>, whose main source I think is 'The Haunted Halls of Stonepike', we learn that Carduth is large and expansionist, somewhat like the Roman Empire. They field many legions, stationed throughout the empire. Their soldiers are supported by wizards and hippogriff air cavalry. In their last major expansion, 40 years ago, Carduth annexed <strong>Gallipona</strong>, a semi-desert land of spices and horse-traders lying to its south. Carduth recently sent 10,000 men (presumably two or three legions) to fight the confusingly named dwarven city of <strong>Stonepike</strong> in the Stonespikes and their Bainlund hillmen allies. They've had little success so far.</p><p></p><p>So where exactly is Carduth? It has also been said to be "at odds with Hendralia to the north", which goes without saying if it is east of the Stonespikes. Nevertheless, this statement does limit how far north Carduth's centre-of-mass can lie, if Hendralians regard the Empire as lying to their south rather than to their east. Yet Carduth has unfriendly contact with Hendralia, trying to stir up trouble between it and Rivenblight (as if they need to bother). In the ORM, there's an east-west road that heads through Tharol (once part of Medibaria but now outside its recognised borders) determinedly eastwards between the northern edge of the Stonespikes and the hints of another mountain range, to... where? Nowhere that we know of, but probably not far from the northern extent of Carduth. Chances are the road was once maintained in this region by Medibaria. This seems like a sensible route for Carduthian envoys to Hendralia to take. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, this puts Carduth's bulk more in the southern half of the rectangle east of the Orussus Region. How far east it extends is still anyone's guess, though if we assume it has roughly the land area of the Roman Empire, then it ought to extend over about 2.5 complete rectangles.</p><p></p><p>Gallipona is probably on the southern edge of the rectangle east of the "Riverlands Map" at the closest (or else it would likely be wetter), and probably it's in the rectangle south of that. One rectangle yet further south is the top-middle of the 3x3 inland sea block (which would surely be a major goal if they knew of it) where lands would again be wetter, so Gallipona can't be this far south.</p><p></p><p>Why is Carduth trying so hard to conquer Stonepike, rather than marching west into the Riverlands, then perhaps turning north up the Grellgo towards Orussus? I think we can safely conclude that the eastern portion of the Riverlands Map contains some kind of barrier impassable to massed troops. My guess is that it's a very large forest, beginning just south of Stonepike and Bainlund's area of influence, temperate at first and turning to jungle as we head south corresponding to the sub-tropical Riverlands. If Carduth has sent a legion through it, they probably had a Teutoberg Forest-type disaster, which has discouraged them from sending any more legions west by this route, hence the focus on Stonepike.</p><p></p><p>A true desert presumably lies south of Gallipona, preventing the long journey south-west-north.</p><p></p><p>Why haven't they tried to cross into the western lands by the Tharol road? I'm picturing a lonely Medibarian outpost holding a narrow mountain pass, allowing merchant and diplomatic traffic, but willing to die to the last man to prevent a Carduthian passage in force. Perhaps they can collapse the pass as a last resort.</p><p></p><p>We also know that Carduth did not send a delegation to the Council in Medibaria that preceded the events of the M-A. I imagine this is just because Rystil forgot about the giant empire on Medibaria's doorstep! But in world, we might assume that they're arrogant, self-reliant and independent. They're so much bigger than Medibaria and co. that they think pooling resources would make an insignificant difference to their own efforts. Or perhaps they were not invited - which would imply exceedingly poor relations with Medibaria, or that they have a general bad reputation.</p><p></p><p>In 'Ashin's Commission', there's an oblique reference. A soldier comments "People around here like to talk about that [something very bad] about as much as they like to talk about what Carduthians do to slaves taken in battle."</p><p></p><p>It sounds as though they're not unlike the Romans in that they're civilized, enlightened, and cultured, and mercilessly pragmatically brutal when it comes to crushing opposition. I'd guess that the peoples of territories that 'volunteer' to join the Empire are sooner or later granted some form of Carduthian citizenship; those that are conquered wait rather longer, and their defeated military age population ends up enslaved... and something unspecified but nasty happens to them, rumours of which have reached the commonfolk as far west as Fallon.</p><p></p><p>We don't know whether they have a native slave class too. Either way, we can guess that many people in Carduth worship Naberezhny (the god, not the region in Russia - who named this?): "His followers are many... Worshippers are either those controlling the many or the slaves forced into worship. Many slaves come to embrace Naberezhnyi and seek to gain control over their oppressors through uprisings or single battles." The teachings of the associated Cult of Arrhim are probably influential, particularly with powerful Carduthians. But Carduth isn't an evil empire, ostensibly, so I think if there's an officially favoured religion, it's probably that of Azwan (probably the more LN bits). That would conveniently drive the Naberezhny followers and Arrhim cultists underground; or else there's a simmering religious war between priests of Azwan and Naberezhny held in check by their shared duty to the state and emperor.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trouvere, post: 4932037, member: 37250"] Right. Let's take a look at the rectangle immediately east of the Orussus Region Map (ORM). The [B]Empire of Carduth[/B] lies somewhere east of the Stonespike Mountains. Its capital city is [B]Lhondaio[/B]. Nurlan Naibi is a native of this city. His mentor was named Shkarna. As far as I know, these are the only Carduthian names we know (assuming Shkarna is also from Carduth). From the [URL="http://bluwiki.com/go/Living_ENWorld:Carduth"]wiki[/URL], whose main source I think is 'The Haunted Halls of Stonepike', we learn that Carduth is large and expansionist, somewhat like the Roman Empire. They field many legions, stationed throughout the empire. Their soldiers are supported by wizards and hippogriff air cavalry. In their last major expansion, 40 years ago, Carduth annexed [B]Gallipona[/B], a semi-desert land of spices and horse-traders lying to its south. Carduth recently sent 10,000 men (presumably two or three legions) to fight the confusingly named dwarven city of [B]Stonepike[/B] in the Stonespikes and their Bainlund hillmen allies. They've had little success so far. So where exactly is Carduth? It has also been said to be "at odds with Hendralia to the north", which goes without saying if it is east of the Stonespikes. Nevertheless, this statement does limit how far north Carduth's centre-of-mass can lie, if Hendralians regard the Empire as lying to their south rather than to their east. Yet Carduth has unfriendly contact with Hendralia, trying to stir up trouble between it and Rivenblight (as if they need to bother). In the ORM, there's an east-west road that heads through Tharol (once part of Medibaria but now outside its recognised borders) determinedly eastwards between the northern edge of the Stonespikes and the hints of another mountain range, to... where? Nowhere that we know of, but probably not far from the northern extent of Carduth. Chances are the road was once maintained in this region by Medibaria. This seems like a sensible route for Carduthian envoys to Hendralia to take. Anyway, this puts Carduth's bulk more in the southern half of the rectangle east of the Orussus Region. How far east it extends is still anyone's guess, though if we assume it has roughly the land area of the Roman Empire, then it ought to extend over about 2.5 complete rectangles. Gallipona is probably on the southern edge of the rectangle east of the "Riverlands Map" at the closest (or else it would likely be wetter), and probably it's in the rectangle south of that. One rectangle yet further south is the top-middle of the 3x3 inland sea block (which would surely be a major goal if they knew of it) where lands would again be wetter, so Gallipona can't be this far south. Why is Carduth trying so hard to conquer Stonepike, rather than marching west into the Riverlands, then perhaps turning north up the Grellgo towards Orussus? I think we can safely conclude that the eastern portion of the Riverlands Map contains some kind of barrier impassable to massed troops. My guess is that it's a very large forest, beginning just south of Stonepike and Bainlund's area of influence, temperate at first and turning to jungle as we head south corresponding to the sub-tropical Riverlands. If Carduth has sent a legion through it, they probably had a Teutoberg Forest-type disaster, which has discouraged them from sending any more legions west by this route, hence the focus on Stonepike. A true desert presumably lies south of Gallipona, preventing the long journey south-west-north. Why haven't they tried to cross into the western lands by the Tharol road? I'm picturing a lonely Medibarian outpost holding a narrow mountain pass, allowing merchant and diplomatic traffic, but willing to die to the last man to prevent a Carduthian passage in force. Perhaps they can collapse the pass as a last resort. We also know that Carduth did not send a delegation to the Council in Medibaria that preceded the events of the M-A. I imagine this is just because Rystil forgot about the giant empire on Medibaria's doorstep! But in world, we might assume that they're arrogant, self-reliant and independent. They're so much bigger than Medibaria and co. that they think pooling resources would make an insignificant difference to their own efforts. Or perhaps they were not invited - which would imply exceedingly poor relations with Medibaria, or that they have a general bad reputation. In 'Ashin's Commission', there's an oblique reference. A soldier comments "People around here like to talk about that [something very bad] about as much as they like to talk about what Carduthians do to slaves taken in battle." It sounds as though they're not unlike the Romans in that they're civilized, enlightened, and cultured, and mercilessly pragmatically brutal when it comes to crushing opposition. I'd guess that the peoples of territories that 'volunteer' to join the Empire are sooner or later granted some form of Carduthian citizenship; those that are conquered wait rather longer, and their defeated military age population ends up enslaved... and something unspecified but nasty happens to them, rumours of which have reached the commonfolk as far west as Fallon. We don't know whether they have a native slave class too. Either way, we can guess that many people in Carduth worship Naberezhny (the god, not the region in Russia - who named this?): "His followers are many... Worshippers are either those controlling the many or the slaves forced into worship. Many slaves come to embrace Naberezhnyi and seek to gain control over their oppressors through uprisings or single battles." The teachings of the associated Cult of Arrhim are probably influential, particularly with powerful Carduthians. But Carduth isn't an evil empire, ostensibly, so I think if there's an officially favoured religion, it's probably that of Azwan (probably the more LN bits). That would conveniently drive the Naberezhny followers and Arrhim cultists underground; or else there's a simmering religious war between priests of Azwan and Naberezhny held in check by their shared duty to the state and emperor. [/QUOTE]
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