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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Evenglare" data-source="post: 6435985" data-attributes="member: 63245">Pretty much topic. I'd like to hear discussion about it. We have heard arguments from both sides on various threads so I figured this would be a good have to focus the discussion. There's a couple of reasons this has been brought up, right off the top of my head is the Druid being able to shapeshift and effectively gain infinite hit points. Whether or not we are interpreting the rules right isn't necessarily what I want to focus on. I'd like to talk more about the fact that... well... should it matter if it's overpowered? It is after all level 20.Furthermore, there actually is a reason I wanted to discuss this topic in particular is a homebrew I created a few weeks ago for the barbarian. So pathfinder released their advanced class guide and I completely and utterly fell in love with the Bloodrager. It's by far my favorite class in ANYTHING I have ever seen. I just love the whole idea of raging then taking on the form of your bloodline. So naturally I ported it over to 5e and refined it as a barbarian subclass. Now, the point of talking about level 20 abilities being overpowered stems from this. Level 20 barbarians get to continually rage. Normally this ability seems just about perfect for a level 20 barbarian... however my subclass throws a bit of a wrench in my development.So my bloodrager has 3 blood lines (celestial, demonic and fey), they gain various abilities like resistance, an aura, extra bonuses to your attack dealing some specific type of damage based on your bloodline, and they gain wings (feather for celestial, fairylike for fey, and bat type for demonic.) So you may see the point of the discussion. At level 20 the barbarian basically gains all of this stuff permanently which would be fine except for one thing. The celestial barbarian basically does what the level 20 vengeance paladin can do, except the paladin's ability only allows this for an hour, while the barbarian ability is indefinite. So there's a couple of thoughts behind how I can deal with this. One thought is that I just leave it how it is, the justification is that even though the barbarian at level 20 is better than the level 20 paladin's ability, the paladin has access to spells and various other things thus making up for the fact that the 20 ability only lasts an hour. The other option is the one I'm more wary about. I can nerf the barbs level 20 ability if they take the subclass. I'm not too comfortable having the subclass altering the base class abilities. If I did this I would allow the barbarian rage maybe 8 or 10 times a day.So those are my two options, I really like what I have done with my subclass, and I believe it's relatively balanced in every way except for the infinite rage aspect at 20. Now, all that being said, the circumstance may never show itself considering getting all the way to 20 is a very rare feat in and of itself. Thanks for your time reading all of this.tldr; too complicated for a tldr.</blockquote>

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