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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Plane Sailing" data-source="post: 2630212" data-attributes="member: 114">On the one hand the straight d20modern system seems to make brawls between 1st level smart normals a non-event because they can't ever knock each other out. On the other hand using D&D style nonlethal damage means that it is difficult to keep a fight going more than a round or two.At the moment for d20Modern my favoured solution is to use massive damage threshold of CON or current hp... which means that low hp characters (or anyone that is severely wounded) becomes vulnerable to the unarmed punch that takes them out.A completely different approach that might have some merit is to use the M&M "Damage save" mechanism for unarmed combat - that would have the dual advantages of allowing for one-shot takedowns of people (they roll really badly on their damage save) but also allow for cinematic too and fro-ing (gradually taking hits and getting more beat up before finally going down)I mention the latter as a potential solution since d20M already introduces a different system for handling nonlethal, so why not consider something additional!Another thought for consideration - and maybe someone more knowledgeable on physiology may be able to help here - how easy is 'nonlethal' force to apply anyway in real life? It seems that all the time we hear in the news about someone who dies as a result of excessive force, when one person was just trying to restrain or fend off someone else. Maybe 'nonlethal' in most cases means "take them to somewhere between -1 and -10 and then stablise them before they die" and could be handled by normal hp damage?Cheers</blockquote>

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