Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Discussion on +x magic items
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 3924039" data-attributes="member: 40961"><p>Players like getting stuff and increasing their stats. If every item is a "unique ability" item instead of a "+X" item, you either have to decrease the number of items a character has, irking players, or you end up drowning in minutia.</p><p></p><p>If you drop all the +X items and give out the same number of items as before, you end up with too much stuff. If everyone in the party needs not only a unique weapon, but unique armor, shield, gloves, belt, cloak, amulet, and two rings, you end up with the christmas tree effect except worse, because now you're overloaded with special abilities, making encounter design a nightmare.</p><p></p><p>If you drop all the +X items, and give out fewer items than before, my players won't be happy, and I wager a lot of other people's players will be the same way. I'm all for killing sacred cows, but "kill monsters, take their stuff" is probably too sacred even for me to slay.</p><p></p><p>I personally favor a middle ground. Keep +X weapons. Keep +X [skill] items. Probably keep +X armor and shields, so that the math from the +X items works out. Drop items that increase your ability scores, and break items that increase your saves up into multiple types of items, one for each save (probably put these bonuses in the armor). Lower "X" for most +X items, and add additional abilities to the item.</p><p></p><p>"+2 Sword" = boring.</p><p>"+1 Flaming Sword" = cooler.</p><p></p><p>And a note on skills- this is the one place where +X items are practically mandatory. Items like "Slippers of Spiderclimb" are actually damaging to the game because they're NOT +X items. Lets say that so far in your campaign, climbing problems have been solved by the Ranger. He climbs whatever it is you need to get over, ties a rope and lowers it for everyone else. To do this, he's got maxed ranks in Climb, no armor penalty, and a good strength score. His current Climb mod is +12. </p><p></p><p>Then you find Slippers of Spiderclimb. If you give them to the Ranger, he now automatically climbs things. That's nice and all, but it means all his skill ranks are wasted. Plus, you can get more mileage by giving the Slippers to the Cleric. Now he can wear his full plate and climb better than the Ranger, while the Ranger follows and does his best. You now have two characters who can climb instead of one. Except the Ranger lost his niche to a pair of shoes.</p><p></p><p>Change Slippers of Spiderclimb to read "+10 to climb checks," and your problem is fixed. Now you have two choices. If you give the Slippers to the Cleric, the Cleric will be able to sort of keep up with the Ranger. Lets say, Climb mod +7 total, due to armor penalties. So you'll have two climbers, the good one, the Ranger, and the ok one, the Cleric. Or, you can give the Slippers to the Ranger, giving him a total mod of +22. Now he's ridiculously good at climbing, and its all because he invested in the Climb skill.</p><p></p><p>That's why certain +X items are helpful. Non +X effects tend to be all or nothing, which devalues classes that do things on a percentage chance. Making them into +X items with the same theme empowers the classes who do similar things, by letting them do those things even better, instead of being pushed out of their niche.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 3924039, member: 40961"] Players like getting stuff and increasing their stats. If every item is a "unique ability" item instead of a "+X" item, you either have to decrease the number of items a character has, irking players, or you end up drowning in minutia. If you drop all the +X items and give out the same number of items as before, you end up with too much stuff. If everyone in the party needs not only a unique weapon, but unique armor, shield, gloves, belt, cloak, amulet, and two rings, you end up with the christmas tree effect except worse, because now you're overloaded with special abilities, making encounter design a nightmare. If you drop all the +X items, and give out fewer items than before, my players won't be happy, and I wager a lot of other people's players will be the same way. I'm all for killing sacred cows, but "kill monsters, take their stuff" is probably too sacred even for me to slay. I personally favor a middle ground. Keep +X weapons. Keep +X [skill] items. Probably keep +X armor and shields, so that the math from the +X items works out. Drop items that increase your ability scores, and break items that increase your saves up into multiple types of items, one for each save (probably put these bonuses in the armor). Lower "X" for most +X items, and add additional abilities to the item. "+2 Sword" = boring. "+1 Flaming Sword" = cooler. And a note on skills- this is the one place where +X items are practically mandatory. Items like "Slippers of Spiderclimb" are actually damaging to the game because they're NOT +X items. Lets say that so far in your campaign, climbing problems have been solved by the Ranger. He climbs whatever it is you need to get over, ties a rope and lowers it for everyone else. To do this, he's got maxed ranks in Climb, no armor penalty, and a good strength score. His current Climb mod is +12. Then you find Slippers of Spiderclimb. If you give them to the Ranger, he now automatically climbs things. That's nice and all, but it means all his skill ranks are wasted. Plus, you can get more mileage by giving the Slippers to the Cleric. Now he can wear his full plate and climb better than the Ranger, while the Ranger follows and does his best. You now have two characters who can climb instead of one. Except the Ranger lost his niche to a pair of shoes. Change Slippers of Spiderclimb to read "+10 to climb checks," and your problem is fixed. Now you have two choices. If you give the Slippers to the Cleric, the Cleric will be able to sort of keep up with the Ranger. Lets say, Climb mod +7 total, due to armor penalties. So you'll have two climbers, the good one, the Ranger, and the ok one, the Cleric. Or, you can give the Slippers to the Ranger, giving him a total mod of +22. Now he's ridiculously good at climbing, and its all because he invested in the Climb skill. That's why certain +X items are helpful. Non +X effects tend to be all or nothing, which devalues classes that do things on a percentage chance. Making them into +X items with the same theme empowers the classes who do similar things, by letting them do those things even better, instead of being pushed out of their niche. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Discussion on +x magic items
Top