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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Brother MacLaren" data-source="post: 3924198" data-attributes="member: 15999">Of course you won't need it, but some players will still want it.  Increasing base class power just won't do it.  Look at it from the character's point of view.  No matter how much power a PC has, as long as there is a real chance of them losing a fight now and then they will want MORE POWER.  And why shouldn't they?  This is their life on the line.  They'll look for every advantage they can find.The only ways to combat this are to severely limit the number of options for increasing power or to ask players to metagame -- to tell them "Look, I know your characters would logically seek out every possible means to increase their power, but can we agree out-of-character to limit that?"  Your players might or might not be amenable.As to limiting the options, here's a few ways you might do it:Items have a cap on what bonus they can bestow.  Gauntlets give you +2 Str up to a maximum of 18, belts give you +4 to a maximum of 20 or so.The new class-based bonuses do not stack with item bonuses.  Perhaps you get a +1 resistance bonus to saves per 3 PC-class levels, so that +1 cloak is only useful for NPC classes or for very low-level PCs.  Perhaps Rage gives an enhancement bonus to Strength. Multiple magic items interfere with each other in some way (though this will lead to PCs seeking to craft multi-use items that do everything).</blockquote>