Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Discussion: Removing Deities & Gods
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Matthias" data-source="post: 6026411" data-attributes="member: 3625"><p>In my multiverse, new material planes are continually being created by the Supreme Being, and old ones are evolving into new upper planes or lower planes. Each new material plane begins populated with its own flora and fauna and small groups of sentients ('first ones') scattered around the world, in a sort of global paradise.</p><p></p><p>The Overdeity does not create these progenitors with any pre-programmed knowledge, skills, or even a common language, only "perfection of form": perfection of body, intellect, creativity, and longevity.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In game terms, these first ones gain a Progenitor template (I'm thinking CR +1 or +2), which is comparable to the Advanced template but is a better fit for what I wanted to accomplish.</p><p></p><p>[sblock="Progenitor template description"]</p><p>The Progenitor template grants a +5 inherent bonus* to every ability score, +5 competence bonus to any 10 skills (which can include any Craft, Knowledge, Perform, or Profession skill), X10 to all aging effect thresholds for their race, X10 to their racial base maximum age, and X10 the number of dice added to determine individual maximum age. (I know the Advanced template could accomplish much the same thing, but it doesn't do everything that I would like, such as longevity.)</p><p></p><p>All original Progenitors ('generation zero') are created in prime adulthood, but the greater longevity does not increase the onset of adulthood for their descendants. As you might expect, this allows for many more children to be produced in a given generation. However, over many generations, the descendants of these first ones will not possess the same measure of perfection as their ancestors. In game terms, the benefits of the Progenitor template decrease by 20% approximately every seven generations. For example, the seventh generation (counting the first ones as 'zero') will retain the full benefits of the Progenitor template, but the eighth generation will only have 80%. To whit:</p><p></p><p>First Ones and 1st-7th generation Progenitors (human):</p><p><strong>+5</strong> inherent bonuses to ability scores</p><p><strong>+5</strong> competence bonuses to any <strong>10</strong> skills</p><p>Middle age at 35 x 10 = <strong>350</strong> years</p><p>Old age at 53 x 10 = <strong>530</strong> years</p><p>Venerable age at 70 x 10 = <strong>700</strong> years</p><p>Maximum age at 70 x 10 + (2 x 10)d20 = <strong>700 + 20d20</strong> years (min/mean/max: 720 / 910 / 1,100)</p><p></p><p>8th-14th generation Progenitors (human):</p><p><strong>+4</strong> inherent bonuses to ability scores</p><p><strong>+4</strong> competence bonuses to any <strong>8</strong> skills</p><p>Middle age at 35 x 8 = <strong>280</strong> years</p><p>Old age at 53 x 8 = <strong>424</strong> years</p><p>Venerable age at 70 x 8 = <strong>560</strong> years</p><p>Maximum age at 70 x 8 + (2 x 8)d20 = <strong>560 + 16d20</strong> years (min/mean/max: 576 / 728 / 880)</p><p></p><p>15th-21st generation Progenitors (human):</p><p><strong>+3</strong> inherent bonuses to ability scores</p><p><strong>+3</strong> competence bonuses to any <strong>6</strong> skills</p><p>Middle age at 35 x 6 = <strong>210</strong> years</p><p>Old age at 53 x 6 = <strong>318</strong> years</p><p>Venerable age at 70 x 6 = <strong>420</strong> years</p><p>Maximum age at 70 x 6 + (2 x 6)d20 = <strong>420 + 12d20</strong> years (min/mean/max: 432 / 546 / 660)</p><p></p><p>22nd-28th generation Progenitors (human):</p><p><strong>+2</strong> inherent bonuses to ability scores</p><p><strong>+2</strong> competence bonuses to any <strong>4</strong> skills</p><p>Middle age at 35 x 4 = <strong>140</strong> years</p><p>Old age at 53 x 4 = <strong>212</strong> years</p><p>Venerable age at 70 x 4 = <strong>280</strong> years</p><p>Maximum age at 70 x 4 + (2 x 4)d20 = <strong>280 + 8d20</strong> years (min/mean/max: 288 / 364 / 440)</p><p></p><p>29th-35th generation Progenitors (human):</p><p><strong>+1</strong> inherent bonuses to ability scores</p><p><strong>+1</strong> competence bonuses to any <strong>2</strong> skills</p><p>Middle age at 35 x 2 = <strong>70</strong> years</p><p>Old age at 53 x 2 = <strong>106</strong> years</p><p>Venerable age at 70 x 2 = <strong>140</strong> years</p><p>Maximum age at 70 x 2 + (2 x 2)d20 = <strong>140 + 4d20</strong> years (min/mean/max: 144 / 182 / 220)</p><p></p><p>The seven-generation cycle is not an exact process. Random chance may cause the decrease to occur one or two generations early or late. (The risk of offspring born near the cusp of a decrease to suffer the decrease: sixth generation, 25%; seventh generation, 50%; eighth generation 25%; ninth generation, 0%). But beyond the 35th generation or so, the Progenitor template is no longer inheritable.</p><p></p><p>Except under special circumstances, these rules would not even come into play at all; still, that's how I figure it should work. So if a character in my game (or yours, if you want to use these rules) visits an alternate prime that is still "young" as far as material planes go, they might encounter an early-generation Progenitor or a late-generation one, or the PCs might be Progenitors themselves.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>*Note that any Progenitors down to the 7th generation would never be able to benefit from a Wish-granted inherent bonus because they are already "maxed out" for inherent bonuses. Indirectly this template also provides an explanation for the existence of the +5 limit: the Wish restores some of the 'perfection of form' that had been lost over time.</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, these new prime material planes do not come with deities, and deities from older primes are not supposed to intrude or interfere with newly-developing primes, not even for beneficent reasons (a sort of cosmological 'prime directive', if you'll pardon the pun). The First Ones and their descendants are meant to develop their own language, culture, and civilization. In the vast majority of cases, the beings that ascend to godhood for any material plane arise from among these initial generations. Individuals may come later (even post-Progenitors) to ascend to deity status and join, or even replace, the primordial pantheons of a given prime. But for the most part the gods who arose first are the ones will be around when the material plane gets 'promoted' to an outer plane.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Matthias, post: 6026411, member: 3625"] In my multiverse, new material planes are continually being created by the Supreme Being, and old ones are evolving into new upper planes or lower planes. Each new material plane begins populated with its own flora and fauna and small groups of sentients ('first ones') scattered around the world, in a sort of global paradise. The Overdeity does not create these progenitors with any pre-programmed knowledge, skills, or even a common language, only "perfection of form": perfection of body, intellect, creativity, and longevity. In game terms, these first ones gain a Progenitor template (I'm thinking CR +1 or +2), which is comparable to the Advanced template but is a better fit for what I wanted to accomplish. [sblock="Progenitor template description"] The Progenitor template grants a +5 inherent bonus* to every ability score, +5 competence bonus to any 10 skills (which can include any Craft, Knowledge, Perform, or Profession skill), X10 to all aging effect thresholds for their race, X10 to their racial base maximum age, and X10 the number of dice added to determine individual maximum age. (I know the Advanced template could accomplish much the same thing, but it doesn't do everything that I would like, such as longevity.) All original Progenitors ('generation zero') are created in prime adulthood, but the greater longevity does not increase the onset of adulthood for their descendants. As you might expect, this allows for many more children to be produced in a given generation. However, over many generations, the descendants of these first ones will not possess the same measure of perfection as their ancestors. In game terms, the benefits of the Progenitor template decrease by 20% approximately every seven generations. For example, the seventh generation (counting the first ones as 'zero') will retain the full benefits of the Progenitor template, but the eighth generation will only have 80%. To whit: First Ones and 1st-7th generation Progenitors (human): [b]+5[/b] inherent bonuses to ability scores [b]+5[/b] competence bonuses to any [b]10[/b] skills Middle age at 35 x 10 = [b]350[/b] years Old age at 53 x 10 = [b]530[/b] years Venerable age at 70 x 10 = [b]700[/b] years Maximum age at 70 x 10 + (2 x 10)d20 = [b]700 + 20d20[/b] years (min/mean/max: 720 / 910 / 1,100) 8th-14th generation Progenitors (human): [b]+4[/b] inherent bonuses to ability scores [b]+4[/b] competence bonuses to any [b]8[/b] skills Middle age at 35 x 8 = [b]280[/b] years Old age at 53 x 8 = [b]424[/b] years Venerable age at 70 x 8 = [b]560[/b] years Maximum age at 70 x 8 + (2 x 8)d20 = [b]560 + 16d20[/b] years (min/mean/max: 576 / 728 / 880) 15th-21st generation Progenitors (human): [b]+3[/b] inherent bonuses to ability scores [b]+3[/b] competence bonuses to any [b]6[/b] skills Middle age at 35 x 6 = [b]210[/b] years Old age at 53 x 6 = [b]318[/b] years Venerable age at 70 x 6 = [b]420[/b] years Maximum age at 70 x 6 + (2 x 6)d20 = [b]420 + 12d20[/b] years (min/mean/max: 432 / 546 / 660) 22nd-28th generation Progenitors (human): [b]+2[/b] inherent bonuses to ability scores [b]+2[/b] competence bonuses to any [b]4[/b] skills Middle age at 35 x 4 = [b]140[/b] years Old age at 53 x 4 = [b]212[/b] years Venerable age at 70 x 4 = [b]280[/b] years Maximum age at 70 x 4 + (2 x 4)d20 = [b]280 + 8d20[/b] years (min/mean/max: 288 / 364 / 440) 29th-35th generation Progenitors (human): [b]+1[/b] inherent bonuses to ability scores [b]+1[/b] competence bonuses to any [b]2[/b] skills Middle age at 35 x 2 = [b]70[/b] years Old age at 53 x 2 = [b]106[/b] years Venerable age at 70 x 2 = [b]140[/b] years Maximum age at 70 x 2 + (2 x 2)d20 = [b]140 + 4d20[/b] years (min/mean/max: 144 / 182 / 220) The seven-generation cycle is not an exact process. Random chance may cause the decrease to occur one or two generations early or late. (The risk of offspring born near the cusp of a decrease to suffer the decrease: sixth generation, 25%; seventh generation, 50%; eighth generation 25%; ninth generation, 0%). But beyond the 35th generation or so, the Progenitor template is no longer inheritable. Except under special circumstances, these rules would not even come into play at all; still, that's how I figure it should work. So if a character in my game (or yours, if you want to use these rules) visits an alternate prime that is still "young" as far as material planes go, they might encounter an early-generation Progenitor or a late-generation one, or the PCs might be Progenitors themselves. *Note that any Progenitors down to the 7th generation would never be able to benefit from a Wish-granted inherent bonus because they are already "maxed out" for inherent bonuses. Indirectly this template also provides an explanation for the existence of the +5 limit: the Wish restores some of the 'perfection of form' that had been lost over time. [/sblock] Meanwhile, these new prime material planes do not come with deities, and deities from older primes are not supposed to intrude or interfere with newly-developing primes, not even for beneficent reasons (a sort of cosmological 'prime directive', if you'll pardon the pun). The First Ones and their descendants are meant to develop their own language, culture, and civilization. In the vast majority of cases, the beings that ascend to godhood for any material plane arise from among these initial generations. Individuals may come later (even post-Progenitors) to ascend to deity status and join, or even replace, the primordial pantheons of a given prime. But for the most part the gods who arose first are the ones will be around when the material plane gets 'promoted' to an outer plane. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Discussion: Removing Deities & Gods
Top