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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Disillusionment from 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="CM" data-source="post: 5617268" data-attributes="member: 18340"><p>At risk of de-lurking just to post in a semi-edition-warrish thread, I just felt I had a few things to get off my chest.</p><p></p><p>As a long-time fan of 1e, 2e, then 3e, and now 4e, I feel that in many ways 4e is the best D&D has ever had to offer. </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It supports a healthy level of character customization and optimization without delving into the nuclear arms race that was 3e toward the end of its published life. </li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">For the most part it has excellent balance between classes (more on this later)--in earlier editions it always seemed to me that the true power lay in the pure spellcasting classes.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">DM preparation is a snap, such that I can now focus on story/skill challenges and cherry-pick (and reskin) creatures from the DDI Compendium rather than spend three or four hours researching and constructing the creatures necessary to challenge an optimized high-level 3e group.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I don't understand complaints that 4e focuses on combat. Dungeons & Dragons as a whole has always been about adjudicating combat. Whether or not your group is heavily into role-playing is a matter of taste and not something the rules need to (or even should) support. Some people have asked for a social combat system, I suppose to help them increase their amount of role-playing. I think the skill challenge fills this role nicely, if implemented properly by the DM.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At first the book cancellations concerned me, but then I decided I'm OK with it. One of the downfalls of 3e imo was the furious pace of the release schedule (fueling the afore-mentioned arms-race) with poorly-balanced crunch. I think there is plenty of material in the system currently for our group to keep interested for many years. Dragon is still publishing articles regularly and hopefully this will satisfy any need for new material that is not fulfilled by the diminished release schedule.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Did I mention the Compendium? We have never had it this good and honestly I don't know how anybody can complain about it. I would rather spend 5 seconds doing a Compendium search than try to remember which book a spell was published in, look for it in my bookshelf, then look for it in my bedroom, then see if I remember who borrowed the book when that all fails.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Now despite that rosy-tinted picture there are a few things I hope WotC improves on:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Please, please release more support for the marginal classes. The warlock playtest is a positive sign. Other classes like the Artificer, Seeker, and Binder are in the same boat.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Release a real monster builder. I was really disappointed in the "monster leveler" when it released. I couldn't believe it, at first, and it was a bit insulting. I know it's in progress, but it's hard to wait when it was promised so long ago.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Now that 4e seems to be in "standby mode" with limited product releases, I hope the focus shifts to adventures. The framework of the game is there, now just go to the next level and release quality adventures. Adventure support (especially at paragon and epic levels) is one of the most oft-repeated complaints about 4th edition and it seems like one of the easiest to solve. Take the criticism about existing 4e adventures to heart and avoid making the same mistakes.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I'm not sure where WotC wants to go with magic items. I liked the limited use of daily-power items in early 4e. Another feature of 3e that I disliked was the christmas-tree effect of magic items with on-use powers and I would hate to see 4e have the same problem. On the other hand I also like the common/uncommon/rare system, with the caveat that some of the existing uncommon items really should be common. Hopefully with Mordenkainen's Emporium back on the table some of these issues will be addressed.</li> </ul><p></p><p>As a long-time lurker that's my take on the state of Dungeons & Dragons. I'd like to think that I'm part of a silent majority (at least on this particular subforum). Overall I am happy with the game and hope that WotC continues to correct the shortfalls while not introducing more.</p><p></p><p>-Rob</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CM, post: 5617268, member: 18340"] At risk of de-lurking just to post in a semi-edition-warrish thread, I just felt I had a few things to get off my chest. As a long-time fan of 1e, 2e, then 3e, and now 4e, I feel that in many ways 4e is the best D&D has ever had to offer. [LIST]It supports a healthy level of character customization and optimization without delving into the nuclear arms race that was 3e toward the end of its published life. [/LIST] [LIST]For the most part it has excellent balance between classes (more on this later)--in earlier editions it always seemed to me that the true power lay in the pure spellcasting classes. [/LIST] [LIST]DM preparation is a snap, such that I can now focus on story/skill challenges and cherry-pick (and reskin) creatures from the DDI Compendium rather than spend three or four hours researching and constructing the creatures necessary to challenge an optimized high-level 3e group. [/LIST] [LIST]I don't understand complaints that 4e focuses on combat. Dungeons & Dragons as a whole has always been about adjudicating combat. Whether or not your group is heavily into role-playing is a matter of taste and not something the rules need to (or even should) support. Some people have asked for a social combat system, I suppose to help them increase their amount of role-playing. I think the skill challenge fills this role nicely, if implemented properly by the DM.[/LIST] [LIST]At first the book cancellations concerned me, but then I decided I'm OK with it. One of the downfalls of 3e imo was the furious pace of the release schedule (fueling the afore-mentioned arms-race) with poorly-balanced crunch. I think there is plenty of material in the system currently for our group to keep interested for many years. Dragon is still publishing articles regularly and hopefully this will satisfy any need for new material that is not fulfilled by the diminished release schedule.[/LIST] [LIST]Did I mention the Compendium? We have never had it this good and honestly I don't know how anybody can complain about it. I would rather spend 5 seconds doing a Compendium search than try to remember which book a spell was published in, look for it in my bookshelf, then look for it in my bedroom, then see if I remember who borrowed the book when that all fails. [/LIST] Now despite that rosy-tinted picture there are a few things I hope WotC improves on: [List]Please, please release more support for the marginal classes. The warlock playtest is a positive sign. Other classes like the Artificer, Seeker, and Binder are in the same boat.[/List] [List]Release a real monster builder. I was really disappointed in the "monster leveler" when it released. I couldn't believe it, at first, and it was a bit insulting. I know it's in progress, but it's hard to wait when it was promised so long ago.[/LIST] [LIST]Now that 4e seems to be in "standby mode" with limited product releases, I hope the focus shifts to adventures. The framework of the game is there, now just go to the next level and release quality adventures. Adventure support (especially at paragon and epic levels) is one of the most oft-repeated complaints about 4th edition and it seems like one of the easiest to solve. Take the criticism about existing 4e adventures to heart and avoid making the same mistakes.[/LIST] [LIST]I'm not sure where WotC wants to go with magic items. I liked the limited use of daily-power items in early 4e. Another feature of 3e that I disliked was the christmas-tree effect of magic items with on-use powers and I would hate to see 4e have the same problem. On the other hand I also like the common/uncommon/rare system, with the caveat that some of the existing uncommon items really should be common. Hopefully with Mordenkainen's Emporium back on the table some of these issues will be addressed.[/LIST] As a long-time lurker that's my take on the state of Dungeons & Dragons. I'd like to think that I'm part of a silent majority (at least on this particular subforum). Overall I am happy with the game and hope that WotC continues to correct the shortfalls while not introducing more. -Rob [/QUOTE]
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