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Disintegrate Vs. Druid
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<blockquote data-quote="Noctem" data-source="post: 6737148" data-attributes="member: 6801315"><p>You're correct that the real point of this discussion is about the resolution order when multiple game elements trigger off the same thing. In this case, being reduced to 0 HP. However here's why it works the way it does:</p><p></p><p>Wildshape specifies that the reversion back into druid form when reduced to 0 HP because of damage happens DURING the damage resolution step of the Making an Attack section of the PHB. You can see this for yourself because it is stated that if the damage taken would bring you to 0, you revert and then take any remaining damage. The only way to do this is if it can happen during the 2nd step of the Making an Attack section. Essentially all attacks made (melee, ranged, spell, weapon, etc..) all follow these 3 steps. Paraphrasing the first step is making the attack, second is resolving damage and finally the 3rd step is resolving any effects the attack might have. This is the general rule for how ALL attacks are generally resolved except for where specified otherwise (this is an exception based game system where general rules are given and other game elements bend, break or get around them as specified) resolved as a whole including Disintegrate. So because of this, disintegrates turning the target to dust takes place during the 3rd step vs Wildshape reversion takes place during the 2nd step. So already you can tell which one will have priority and always happen first.</p><p></p><p>After the reversion happens, the 3rd step begins and the power checks to see if the target of the power has been reduced to 0 hit points. At this point, the target of the power (the druid, not the wildshape form to be clear) has HP and is not at 0 say for the purposes of this explanation. So the effect does not trigger. However, as Jeremy Crawford explained, if the druid is reduced to 0 hit points by the excess damage from Disintegrate after reversion, the spell checks for HP and sees that the druid is at 0 HP. The druid must then make a saving throw against the spell's effect, during step 3 of the Making an Attack rules and should the druid fail the save he is turned to dust.</p><p></p><p>The problem with how some posters are processing these game elements is that you're allowing Disintegrate's effect section to happen before damage is even resolved. You're also considering the wildshape form as a separate creature for the purposes of triggering the effect. The target of the spell, the druid, has not been reduced to 0 HP regardless of if his wildshape form is. That's like saying that temp HP going to 0 means you've been reduced to 0 HP or something similar. A druid in wildshape form having the form reach 0 HP because of DAMAGE, will never proc effects that require going to 0 hit points. That being said, an effect like the one from Power Word Kill, which only cares about the target's current HP count will work and kill the druid outright and then because the druid dies, he will revert back to druid form still dead. The target of the spell, which is the druid, is dead by the spell's effect. Reverting to druid form does not undo outright death which is what I feel many of the people here think Wildshape allows. This is not true at all, wildshape does not undo death! For that to happen it would have to specifically state that it can undo death when reverting. Since it doesn't, it can't.</p><p></p><p>Now I've explained both RAW and RAI behind the way these game elements work so I hope that helps some people.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: Epithet above gets it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Noctem, post: 6737148, member: 6801315"] You're correct that the real point of this discussion is about the resolution order when multiple game elements trigger off the same thing. In this case, being reduced to 0 HP. However here's why it works the way it does: Wildshape specifies that the reversion back into druid form when reduced to 0 HP because of damage happens DURING the damage resolution step of the Making an Attack section of the PHB. You can see this for yourself because it is stated that if the damage taken would bring you to 0, you revert and then take any remaining damage. The only way to do this is if it can happen during the 2nd step of the Making an Attack section. Essentially all attacks made (melee, ranged, spell, weapon, etc..) all follow these 3 steps. Paraphrasing the first step is making the attack, second is resolving damage and finally the 3rd step is resolving any effects the attack might have. This is the general rule for how ALL attacks are generally resolved except for where specified otherwise (this is an exception based game system where general rules are given and other game elements bend, break or get around them as specified) resolved as a whole including Disintegrate. So because of this, disintegrates turning the target to dust takes place during the 3rd step vs Wildshape reversion takes place during the 2nd step. So already you can tell which one will have priority and always happen first. After the reversion happens, the 3rd step begins and the power checks to see if the target of the power has been reduced to 0 hit points. At this point, the target of the power (the druid, not the wildshape form to be clear) has HP and is not at 0 say for the purposes of this explanation. So the effect does not trigger. However, as Jeremy Crawford explained, if the druid is reduced to 0 hit points by the excess damage from Disintegrate after reversion, the spell checks for HP and sees that the druid is at 0 HP. The druid must then make a saving throw against the spell's effect, during step 3 of the Making an Attack rules and should the druid fail the save he is turned to dust. The problem with how some posters are processing these game elements is that you're allowing Disintegrate's effect section to happen before damage is even resolved. You're also considering the wildshape form as a separate creature for the purposes of triggering the effect. The target of the spell, the druid, has not been reduced to 0 HP regardless of if his wildshape form is. That's like saying that temp HP going to 0 means you've been reduced to 0 HP or something similar. A druid in wildshape form having the form reach 0 HP because of DAMAGE, will never proc effects that require going to 0 hit points. That being said, an effect like the one from Power Word Kill, which only cares about the target's current HP count will work and kill the druid outright and then because the druid dies, he will revert back to druid form still dead. The target of the spell, which is the druid, is dead by the spell's effect. Reverting to druid form does not undo outright death which is what I feel many of the people here think Wildshape allows. This is not true at all, wildshape does not undo death! For that to happen it would have to specifically state that it can undo death when reverting. Since it doesn't, it can't. Now I've explained both RAW and RAI behind the way these game elements work so I hope that helps some people. EDIT: Epithet above gets it. :) [/QUOTE]
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