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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9729549" data-attributes="member: 7030563">No actually according to the 5E rules on spells &quot;touch&quot; is a range, just like &quot;XX feet&quot; or &quot;self&quot;.&nbsp; It is not a mechanic, an attack or anything.&nbsp; It is specifically the range for a spell as noted in the description above.It is not an attack at all.&nbsp; I am the one arguing the opposite.Also when it comes to spells &quot;ranged attack&quot; vs &quot;melee attack&quot; are specified in the spell's description and have nothing to do with the range of the spell or the caster's reach.It is not &quot;clearly&quot; untrue.&nbsp; Nowhere do the designers state, nor suggest that I can't automatically touch someone I target with a spell, and clearly I can touch people with some touch spells and effect them even when they are harmful and even when they get a save.There is nothing inconsistent about it.&nbsp; Nowhere does it say I can't automatically touch someone with a touch spell.Right, it can be cast on an enemy under the effect of a spell who does not want it cast on him and it is canceled.&nbsp; He gets no save, you don't have to make any attack roll .... kind of like we are talking about with Dispel Good and Evil.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9729549, member: 7030563"] No actually according to the 5E rules on spells "touch" is a range, just like "XX feet" or "self". It is not a mechanic, an attack or anything. It is specifically the range for a spell as noted in the description above. It is not an attack at all. I am the one arguing the opposite. Also when it comes to spells "ranged attack" vs "melee attack" are specified in the spell's description and have nothing to do with the range of the spell or the caster's reach. It is not "clearly" untrue. Nowhere do the designers state, nor suggest that I can't automatically touch someone I target with a spell, and clearly I can touch people with some touch spells and effect them even when they are harmful and even when they get a save. There is nothing inconsistent about it. Nowhere does it say I can't automatically touch someone with a touch spell. Right, it can be cast on an enemy under the effect of a spell who does not want it cast on him and it is canceled. He gets no save, you don't have to make any attack roll .... kind of like we are talking about with Dispel Good and Evil. [/QUOTE]

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