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<blockquote data-quote="TheCosmicKid" data-source="post: 6942711" data-attributes="member: 6683613">All of this is true, but I don't see how any of it is relevant to the question of JoAT. JoAT says you get to add half your proficiency to all ability checks. Not &quot;all ability checks which somebody else might be able to apply their proficiency to&quot;, all ability checks. Initiative is determined by a Dexterity check. Thus, JoAT applies to it.Beyond this simply being correct by the letter of the rules, there's a practical reason for it as well. The category of &quot;all ability checks&quot; is fixed and well defined, whereas the category of &quot;all ability checks which somebody else might be able to apply their proficiency to&quot; is in flux. There doesn't happen to be any class feature or feat or magic item (that I'm aware of) which allows a character to add their proficiency to their initiative, but WoTC could print one or your DM could homebrew one at any time. Just look at the dispel check that's the actual topic of this thread. Normally, you can't add your proficiency to it. But there happens to be one class feature -- the abjurer ability -- which lets you do just that. If the abjurer subclass didn't exist or had a different ability at that level, dispel checks would not be in the category &quot;all ability checks which somebody else etc.&quot;. But because the abjurer exists, they are. Doesn't it seem strange that what a bard can do should be dependent on the existence or nonexistence of a subclass that has nothing to do with bards?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TheCosmicKid, post: 6942711, member: 6683613"] All of this is true, but I don't see how any of it is relevant to the question of JoAT. JoAT says you get to add half your proficiency to all ability checks. Not "all ability checks which somebody else might be able to apply their proficiency to", [I]all ability checks[/I]. Initiative is determined by a Dexterity check. Thus, JoAT applies to it. Beyond this simply being correct by the letter of the rules, there's a practical reason for it as well. The category of "all ability checks" is fixed and well defined, whereas the category of "all ability checks which somebody else might be able to apply their proficiency to" is in flux. There doesn't happen to be any class feature or feat or magic item (that I'm aware of) which allows a character to add their proficiency to their initiative, but WoTC could print one or your DM could homebrew one at any time. Just look at the dispel check that's the actual topic of this thread. Normally, you can't add your proficiency to it. But there happens to be one class feature -- the abjurer ability -- which lets you do just that. If the abjurer subclass didn't exist or had a different ability at that level, dispel checks would not be in the category "all ability checks which somebody else [I]etc.[/I]". But because the abjurer exists, they are. Doesn't it seem strange that what a bard can do should be dependent on the existence or nonexistence of a subclass that has nothing to do with bards? [/QUOTE]

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