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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4130094" data-attributes="member: 2011">I'm not yet convinced that the math is fixed. We are seeing a lot of +2 for combat advantage, +2 or -2 for marked, +6 for Mirror Image, +2 for Fox's Cunning, -4 for Witchfire, +2 for Lance of Faith, etc. which indicates that the base math might be fixed, but the plethora of stackable bonuses and/or penalties (some of them quite hefty) might not be. Course, some of these are once or a few rounds per encounter or per day (and some might not stack), but with the proper synergies, that might be often enough. Even low level magic items are also often looking like +5 for a round. Sure, it's only a round, but +5 is pretty hefty, enough to often shake off a spell effect with a save more often than not.We are also seeing things like Cleave or Divine Challenge where I do not care what your AC is, I can often arrange for you to take damage regardless (with no saving throw or other defense shy of somehow changing the situation that allows for it and in that case, the NPC would have to know what to do to change the situation).Even with just core rules, it might become possible for experienced players to get very hefty bonuses which upset the math applecart.</blockquote>