Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Dissapointed with Attunement
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6034609" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Kind of a long, off-topic answer, but...</p><p>[sblock]</p><p>I think in the first place that problem of "this magic item is useless, I'm going to sell it off to the first merchant I see and get something useful!" is a problem created by assuming magic items (and player wealth) in the balance of the game. If you assume that, then players must have magic items (roughly measured by GP) to be useful, and you as a DM are sort of forced into giving them what they want. If you don't, they'll (a) sell it off and buy something they DO want, or (b) sell it off, not buy anything, and then be weaker than the rest of the party and/or too weak to address the challenges thrown at them. </p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, if you don't assume magic items (and player wealth) in the balance of the game, it's OK if a player decides that they'd rather have a few hundred GP than a <em>decanter of endless water</em>, since those GP can only buy them "ale and whores" (and perhaps consumable items) -- ie, it's okay to let a player opt not to bother to track or use a particular item, since nothing bad happens if they don't. They aren't "too weak." </p><p></p><p>In the same way, you can feel more free to give out "useless" items as a DM, knowing that it's OK if the party doesn't want to keep them. You don't need to give them a lot of gold for it, you don't need to worry about replacing their valuable items, and you don't need to worry about giving them "the big six" or anything like that.</p><p></p><p>You're also able to still drop in magic items as a world-building/plot-hook element, even if they're not assumed in the balance, because this then allows you to actually <em>reward</em> the player who does the legwork to get the Holy Avenger with a Holy Avenger, instead of merely fulfilling their request. </p><p></p><p>So the problem that wishlists were supposed to solve, IMO, wouldn't even be a problem if you didn't assume magic items in the balance of the game.</p><p></p><p>Given that baseline, if you're working with a game where you "have to" award magic items, I still think that wishlists are a severely maladroit way to do so. Primarily, wishlists change the psychology of treasure from "something I want to try and get" to "something I get." </p><p></p><p>It's a bit like the difference between getting a prize for getting "All A's" on your report card (especially if you didn't expect it), and...well...:</p><p></p><p>[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4a9CKgLprQ]YouTube[/ame]</p><p></p><p>Or maybe more accurately, the difference between getting a performance-based bonus or unexpected raise at work, versus getting your Christmas bonus or a cost-of-living raise at work. </p><p></p><p>One is an unexpected or aspirational thing that you want and strive toward.</p><p></p><p>The other is an expectation that, if you don't get (or get it in a way you don't want), you're going to be disappointed. </p><p></p><p>That latter mental state is, IMO, pretty unacceptable for magic items in D&D. They don't represent entitlements or expected gifts, they represent something aspirational and lucky. They're not present as a matter of course, they're present as an exceptional scenario. They're valuable and desirable, not basic and functional. Even a +1 sword should be like that.</p><p>[/sblock]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6034609, member: 2067"] Kind of a long, off-topic answer, but... [sblock] I think in the first place that problem of "this magic item is useless, I'm going to sell it off to the first merchant I see and get something useful!" is a problem created by assuming magic items (and player wealth) in the balance of the game. If you assume that, then players must have magic items (roughly measured by GP) to be useful, and you as a DM are sort of forced into giving them what they want. If you don't, they'll (a) sell it off and buy something they DO want, or (b) sell it off, not buy anything, and then be weaker than the rest of the party and/or too weak to address the challenges thrown at them. Meanwhile, if you don't assume magic items (and player wealth) in the balance of the game, it's OK if a player decides that they'd rather have a few hundred GP than a [I]decanter of endless water[/I], since those GP can only buy them "ale and whores" (and perhaps consumable items) -- ie, it's okay to let a player opt not to bother to track or use a particular item, since nothing bad happens if they don't. They aren't "too weak." In the same way, you can feel more free to give out "useless" items as a DM, knowing that it's OK if the party doesn't want to keep them. You don't need to give them a lot of gold for it, you don't need to worry about replacing their valuable items, and you don't need to worry about giving them "the big six" or anything like that. You're also able to still drop in magic items as a world-building/plot-hook element, even if they're not assumed in the balance, because this then allows you to actually [I]reward[/I] the player who does the legwork to get the Holy Avenger with a Holy Avenger, instead of merely fulfilling their request. So the problem that wishlists were supposed to solve, IMO, wouldn't even be a problem if you didn't assume magic items in the balance of the game. Given that baseline, if you're working with a game where you "have to" award magic items, I still think that wishlists are a severely maladroit way to do so. Primarily, wishlists change the psychology of treasure from "something I want to try and get" to "something I get." It's a bit like the difference between getting a prize for getting "All A's" on your report card (especially if you didn't expect it), and...well...: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4a9CKgLprQ]YouTube[/ame] Or maybe more accurately, the difference between getting a performance-based bonus or unexpected raise at work, versus getting your Christmas bonus or a cost-of-living raise at work. One is an unexpected or aspirational thing that you want and strive toward. The other is an expectation that, if you don't get (or get it in a way you don't want), you're going to be disappointed. That latter mental state is, IMO, pretty unacceptable for magic items in D&D. They don't represent entitlements or expected gifts, they represent something aspirational and lucky. They're not present as a matter of course, they're present as an exceptional scenario. They're valuable and desirable, not basic and functional. Even a +1 sword should be like that. [/sblock] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Dissapointed with Attunement
Top