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Diversity in D&D Third Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 7869568" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>That's not quite correct. The shift wasn't that simple. In Middle English, we had:</p><p></p><p>Second person subjective* singular/plural: thou/ye</p><p>Second person objective** singular/plural: thee/you</p><p></p><p>The Norman conquest brought some continental sensibilities to English - in particular, using the plurals to refer to royalty. This generalized, into using the plurals when you are speaking formally. </p><p></p><p>Then, "you" started killing not just "thou" but <em>all three</em> of the other second-person pronouns, and taking their stuff. Shakespeare was using the old form and just "you" interchangeably - some of the jokes are actually subtle plays on whether a character is speaking formally or not.</p><p></p><p>Then along comes a guy named Tyndale. He does a translation of the Bible (for which he is later killed), and keeps all the second-person pronouns. His translations become the basis for the King James Bible, preserving this usage.</p><p></p><p>Though, oddly, since we only see thou, ye, and thee in this rather important work, we think of these as being the <em>formal</em> words, and "you" is now egalitarian.</p><p></p><p>And, in dong reading about this, I find authors who suggest this fits into the Southern US "y'all". Culturally, there are reasons why Southerners want a way to distinguish formal and informal again (or, really, "in-group" and "out-group"). "Y'all" becomes an informal "you". Then, we get "all y'all", which takes the informal plural, not because "y'all" isn't actually plural, but just because "all y'all" is <em>more</em> plural.</p><p></p><p>Yes, I know this is all off-topic for a thread on Diversity. But, you know, this wormed its way in and is interesting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>*Subjective pronouns are the ones you use to be the subject of the sentence, and perform the action of the verb: in Modern English -<em> I, he, she, it, they, we, </em>and<em> you.</em> </p><p>**Objective pronouns are the ones you use to be the object of the sentence, and receive the action of the verb: in Modern English - <em>me, him, her, it, them, us, </em>and<em> you.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 7869568, member: 177"] That's not quite correct. The shift wasn't that simple. In Middle English, we had: Second person subjective* singular/plural: thou/ye Second person objective** singular/plural: thee/you The Norman conquest brought some continental sensibilities to English - in particular, using the plurals to refer to royalty. This generalized, into using the plurals when you are speaking formally. Then, "you" started killing not just "thou" but [I]all three[/I] of the other second-person pronouns, and taking their stuff. Shakespeare was using the old form and just "you" interchangeably - some of the jokes are actually subtle plays on whether a character is speaking formally or not. Then along comes a guy named Tyndale. He does a translation of the Bible (for which he is later killed), and keeps all the second-person pronouns. His translations become the basis for the King James Bible, preserving this usage. Though, oddly, since we only see thou, ye, and thee in this rather important work, we think of these as being the [I]formal[/I] words, and "you" is now egalitarian. And, in dong reading about this, I find authors who suggest this fits into the Southern US "y'all". Culturally, there are reasons why Southerners want a way to distinguish formal and informal again (or, really, "in-group" and "out-group"). "Y'all" becomes an informal "you". Then, we get "all y'all", which takes the informal plural, not because "y'all" isn't actually plural, but just because "all y'all" is [I]more[/I] plural. Yes, I know this is all off-topic for a thread on Diversity. But, you know, this wormed its way in and is interesting. *Subjective pronouns are the ones you use to be the subject of the sentence, and perform the action of the verb: in Modern English -[I] I, he, she, it, they, we, [/I]and[I] you.[/I] **Objective pronouns are the ones you use to be the object of the sentence, and receive the action of the verb: in Modern English - [I]me, him, her, it, them, us, [/I]and[I] you.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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