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Divination Dilemma
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<blockquote data-quote="RUMBLETiGER" data-source="post: 5920162" data-attributes="member: 6674868"><p>My 2 cents:</p><p></p><p>-Wizards are not gods. </p><p></p><p>-Wizards can be played as many-times-more-powerful than most other people.</p><p></p><p>-Knowledge is Power. </p><p></p><p>-There are a number of ways to acquire knowledge. A Bard with a high Sense Motive could acquire knowledge, a Rogue with a well played Move Silently, Hide, Open Lock, Search, Listen and Spot skills could acquire knowledge. Casters simply tend to acquire that knowledge at a safe distance and in a more leisurely manner.</p><p></p><p>-Ultimately, the DM controls how much knowledge any player acquires, regardless of method. A clever player can stack the plausibility of acquiring knowledge in their favor, but the DM has final say.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If I were Dming this, I'd award full EXP the first time. I'd say "congrats, very clever", and then we'd have an out of game discussion about how the playing field has changed, and they need to make preparations to prevent retaliation. The way me and mine play, Every book, every feat/class/build is possible and creativity is encouraged. However, the DM also has the right to add templates, classes and RAW variants onto monsters and enemies. Creativity goes both ways, and whatever the players can do, the DM can do better. If they use Scry & die tactics, word gets out, and bad guys get smarter. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My goal is rarely to kill my players outright, but often to inconvenience them, and then see what they do about it. They'd be less likely to be Coup De Grace'd in their sleep, more likely to wake up nekkid tied to a tree covered in honey over an ants nest, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm Going to assume by "All about a foe" you mean either observe what they have been doing for an extended period of time, know their thoughts and/or motivations so as to make an informed decision about what they may do or be capable of, be familiar with the gear, equipment, class or racial abilities they have on hand, or literally gain foresight into a future action so as to generate a different outcome. With those parameters in mind, I present the following divination spells:</p><p></p><p>Observe:<em></em></p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3021" target="_blank">Arcane Eye</a></em></p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4703" target="_blank">Chain of Eyes</a></em></p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3069" target="_blank">Clairudience/Clairvoyance</a></em></p><p><em></em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4734" target="_blank"><em>Dreamsight</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4541" target="_blank"><em>Echo Skull</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4409" target="_blank"><em>Eye of Power</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4955" target="_blank"><em>Eye of Stone</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=6079" target="_blank"><em>Flowsight</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4374" target="_blank"><em>Hindsight</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5557" target="_blank"><em>Identify Transgressor</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4743" target="_blank"><em>Implacable pursuer</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3298" target="_blank"><em>Legend Lore</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5496" target="_blank"><em>Listening Coin</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3304" target="_blank"><em>Locate Creature</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3305" target="_blank"><em>Locate Object</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3397" target="_blank"><em>Prying Eyes</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4281" target="_blank"><em>Share Husk</em></a></p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3483" target="_blank">Speak with Animals</a></em></p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3485" target="_blank">Speak with Plants</a></em></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3501" target="_blank"><em>Stone Tell</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3571" target="_blank"><em>Vision</em></a></p><p></p><p>Read minds:</p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4951" target="_blank">Absorb Mind</a></em></p><p><em></em><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4717" target="_blank">Brain Spider</a></em></p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5451" target="_blank">Detect Attitude</a></em></p><p><em></em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5452" target="_blank"><em>Detect Guilt</em></a></p><p>-<em><a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5453" target="_blank">Detect Heresy</a></em></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3143" target="_blank"><em>Discern Lies</em></a></p><p>-<em><a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3136" target="_blank">Detect Thoughts</a></em></p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4765" target="_blank">Probe Thoughts</a></em></p><p><em></em> </p><p>Know Gear/Abilities:</p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3008" target="_blank">Analyze Dweomer</a></em></p><p><em></em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3131" target="_blank"><em>Detect Magic</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3132" target="_blank"><em>Detect Poison</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5751" target="_blank"><em>Detect Bloodline</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5236" target="_blank"><em>Discern Shapechanger</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3266" target="_blank"><em>Identify</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=6343" target="_blank"><em>Know Bloodline</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4576" target="_blank"><em>Know Greatest Enemy</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=6264" target="_blank"><em>Know Opponent</em></a><em></em></p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4286" target="_blank">Know Protections</a></em></p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4577" target="_blank">Know Vulnerabilities</a></em></p><p><em></em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4388" target="_blank"><em>Understand Object</em></a></p><p></p><p>Know Future:</p><p><em>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5746" target="_blank">Choose Destiny</a></em></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3079" target="_blank"><em>Commune</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3157" target="_blank"><em>Divination</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3210" target="_blank"><em>Foresight</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5548" target="_blank"><em>Glimpse of Truth</em></a></p><p>-<a href="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4755" target="_blank"><em>Omen of Peril</em></a></p><p></p><p><em>Know Opponent</em> was the first spell that came to mind when reading this thread. Combine that with <em>Know Protections </em>and <em>Know Vulnerabilities, </em>than really expect to Win.</p><p>What level 3 spell might you use through an <em>Eye of Power</em>?</p><p>What might you do with a <em>Detect Thoughts </em>spell and a week to follow someone? How about <em>Dreamsight</em>? <em>Probe Thoughts</em> is simply just plain unfair.</p><p>The <em>Eye of Stone</em> spell is not blocked by a wall of dense material.</p><p>Aboleths beware of <em>Flowsight</em>!</p><p>What might you learn with the <em>Hindsight</em> spell in a person's home? How about using <em>Speak with Animals</em> to interview his housecat, and <em>Speak with Plants</em> on his daises, then <em>Stone Tell</em> on his living room wall?</p><p></p><p>Can you think of some creative applications of these and other spells that you could use to know information about a target? If you cannot, then do not play a Divination caster, enjoy something else.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RUMBLETiGER, post: 5920162, member: 6674868"] My 2 cents: -Wizards are not gods. -Wizards can be played as many-times-more-powerful than most other people. -Knowledge is Power. -There are a number of ways to acquire knowledge. A Bard with a high Sense Motive could acquire knowledge, a Rogue with a well played Move Silently, Hide, Open Lock, Search, Listen and Spot skills could acquire knowledge. Casters simply tend to acquire that knowledge at a safe distance and in a more leisurely manner. -Ultimately, the DM controls how much knowledge any player acquires, regardless of method. A clever player can stack the plausibility of acquiring knowledge in their favor, but the DM has final say. If I were Dming this, I'd award full EXP the first time. I'd say "congrats, very clever", and then we'd have an out of game discussion about how the playing field has changed, and they need to make preparations to prevent retaliation. The way me and mine play, Every book, every feat/class/build is possible and creativity is encouraged. However, the DM also has the right to add templates, classes and RAW variants onto monsters and enemies. Creativity goes both ways, and whatever the players can do, the DM can do better. If they use Scry & die tactics, word gets out, and bad guys get smarter. My goal is rarely to kill my players outright, but often to inconvenience them, and then see what they do about it. They'd be less likely to be Coup De Grace'd in their sleep, more likely to wake up nekkid tied to a tree covered in honey over an ants nest, etc. I'm Going to assume by "All about a foe" you mean either observe what they have been doing for an extended period of time, know their thoughts and/or motivations so as to make an informed decision about what they may do or be capable of, be familiar with the gear, equipment, class or racial abilities they have on hand, or literally gain foresight into a future action so as to generate a different outcome. With those parameters in mind, I present the following divination spells: Observe:[I] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3021"]Arcane Eye[/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4703"]Chain of Eyes[/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3069"]Clairudience/Clairvoyance[/URL] [/I]-[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4734"][I]Dreamsight[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4541"][I]Echo Skull[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4409"][I]Eye of Power[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4955"][I]Eye of Stone[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=6079"][I]Flowsight[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4374"][I]Hindsight[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5557"][I]Identify Transgressor[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4743"][I]Implacable pursuer[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3298"][I]Legend Lore[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5496"][I]Listening Coin[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3304"][I]Locate Creature[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3305"][I]Locate Object[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3397"][I]Prying Eyes[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4281"][I]Share Husk[/I][/URL] [I]-[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3483"]Speak with Animals[/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3485"]Speak with Plants[/URL][/I] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3501"][I]Stone Tell[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3571"][I]Vision[/I][/URL] Read minds: [I]-[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4951"]Absorb Mind[/URL] [/I][I]-[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4717"]Brain Spider[/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5451"]Detect Attitude[/URL] [/I]-[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5452"][I]Detect Guilt[/I][/URL] -[I][URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5453"]Detect Heresy[/URL][/I] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3143"][I]Discern Lies[/I][/URL] -[I][URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3136"]Detect Thoughts[/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4765"]Probe Thoughts[/URL] [/I] Know Gear/Abilities: [I]-[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3008"]Analyze Dweomer[/URL] [/I]-[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3131"][I]Detect Magic[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3132"][I]Detect Poison[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5751"][I]Detect Bloodline[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5236"][I]Discern Shapechanger[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3266"][I]Identify[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=6343"][I]Know Bloodline[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4576"][I]Know Greatest Enemy[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=6264"][I]Know Opponent[/I][/URL][I] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4286"]Know Protections[/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4577"]Know Vulnerabilities[/URL] [/I]-[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4388"][I]Understand Object[/I][/URL] Know Future: [I]-[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5746"]Choose Destiny[/URL][/I] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3079"][I]Commune[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3157"][I]Divination[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3210"][I]Foresight[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=5548"][I]Glimpse of Truth[/I][/URL] -[URL="http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4755"][I]Omen of Peril[/I][/URL] [I]Know Opponent[/I] was the first spell that came to mind when reading this thread. Combine that with [I]Know Protections [/I]and [I]Know Vulnerabilities, [/I]than really expect to Win. What level 3 spell might you use through an [I]Eye of Power[/I]? What might you do with a [I]Detect Thoughts [/I]spell and a week to follow someone? How about [I]Dreamsight[/I]? [I]Probe Thoughts[/I] is simply just plain unfair. The [I]Eye of Stone[/I] spell is not blocked by a wall of dense material. Aboleths beware of [I]Flowsight[/I]! What might you learn with the [I]Hindsight[/I] spell in a person's home? How about using [I]Speak with Animals[/I] to interview his housecat, and [I]Speak with Plants[/I] on his daises, then [I]Stone Tell[/I] on his living room wall? Can you think of some creative applications of these and other spells that you could use to know information about a target? If you cannot, then do not play a Divination caster, enjoy something else. [/QUOTE]
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