Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
Playing the Game
Play by Post
Living Worlds
Living EN World
Divine Bard (Approved)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Trouvere" data-source="post: 4181525" data-attributes="member: 37250"><p>Good arguments? Heavens no.</p><p></p><p>They boil down to:</p><p>Clerics don't cast illusions!</p><p>Bards don't wear heavy armor!</p><p>Wouldn't a character that does both be cool?</p><p></p><p>Since arcane bards will have a slight edge in spellcasting due to their single stat dependency, I'd suppose that a lot of divine bards would make full use of their only other difference - freedom from arcane spell failure - by dipping in a class that gives heavy armor proficiency (putting their spellcasting further behind) or by taking the appropriate feats (also suboptimal), which would generally push them into a less roguish, more martial role, further from an arcane bard and closer to, yes, a cleric.</p><p></p><p>If a divine bard didn't dip for heavy armor, then the differences from an arcane counterpart <em>would be</em> mostly RP, but I see that as the same sort of problem/challenge as trying to, for example, distinguish two NG clerics with the Fire and Earth domains, one worshipping Chennet' and one Geoth - absolutely identical mechanics there, but probably very different end results.</p><p></p><p>If you want a divine caster (in heavy armor), why not just play a high Cha cleric? Well, bards have a completely different spell list, besides the other mechanical differences. You're trading 9th level cleric spell progression for spontaneous bardic spellcasting to 6th level (or possibly less good than that), supplemented by bardic music, and extra skill points wrt the cleric, or better BAB etc wrt the cloistered cleric.</p><p></p><p>Paladins are heavily armored half-casters, in that sense somewhat like a divine bard could be, but they come with their own enormous RP baggage, so let's ignore them as a general substitute.</p><p></p><p>I like the idea of a heavily armored guy brandishing his holy symbol and longsword, looking all for the (en)world like a paladin or cleric, then casting Mirror Image or Greater Invisibility (or Glitterdust, or Sleep, or Silent Image, or...)!</p><p></p><p>As for deities that might be patrons of divine bards, looking down the list, I can see a lot that would fit well: Phyrah as the most obvious, but also Galatea, Halina, Valessa, Zephos, Azwan, Verdante, Amphousa, Geoth, Grendath, Jareth, Taurusk, Ahrianna, Mongrel, and Ulura, at the least. Divine bards of some of these gods would be very restricted in alignment choices.</p><p></p><p>I, uh, don't think I'm going to spend any time right now attempting to create fluff for divine bards of specific traditions. Seems a little pointless for an unapproved class variant! If it passed, I'd contribute where I felt I had something to say, of course, but I'd rather leave a lot of it up to (a) anyone who has particularly proprietary feelings towards a deity, as well as (b) any eventual divine bard player. As usual, I'd not like to see anything too proscriptive: I'd not want someone who had a firm idea for a divine bard of Zephos as a Good (well, true neutral!) Shepherd-type figure (incidentally, you can't take two steps without tripping over medieval songs about shepherds! Hé, bergier! Pastorele, gente et bele!) to be told that it was out of the question, because his divine bards conduct funerary rites, or recite odes in memory of fallen heroes, for example.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trouvere, post: 4181525, member: 37250"] Good arguments? Heavens no. They boil down to: Clerics don't cast illusions! Bards don't wear heavy armor! Wouldn't a character that does both be cool? Since arcane bards will have a slight edge in spellcasting due to their single stat dependency, I'd suppose that a lot of divine bards would make full use of their only other difference - freedom from arcane spell failure - by dipping in a class that gives heavy armor proficiency (putting their spellcasting further behind) or by taking the appropriate feats (also suboptimal), which would generally push them into a less roguish, more martial role, further from an arcane bard and closer to, yes, a cleric. If a divine bard didn't dip for heavy armor, then the differences from an arcane counterpart [I]would be[/I] mostly RP, but I see that as the same sort of problem/challenge as trying to, for example, distinguish two NG clerics with the Fire and Earth domains, one worshipping Chennet' and one Geoth - absolutely identical mechanics there, but probably very different end results. If you want a divine caster (in heavy armor), why not just play a high Cha cleric? Well, bards have a completely different spell list, besides the other mechanical differences. You're trading 9th level cleric spell progression for spontaneous bardic spellcasting to 6th level (or possibly less good than that), supplemented by bardic music, and extra skill points wrt the cleric, or better BAB etc wrt the cloistered cleric. Paladins are heavily armored half-casters, in that sense somewhat like a divine bard could be, but they come with their own enormous RP baggage, so let's ignore them as a general substitute. I like the idea of a heavily armored guy brandishing his holy symbol and longsword, looking all for the (en)world like a paladin or cleric, then casting Mirror Image or Greater Invisibility (or Glitterdust, or Sleep, or Silent Image, or...)! As for deities that might be patrons of divine bards, looking down the list, I can see a lot that would fit well: Phyrah as the most obvious, but also Galatea, Halina, Valessa, Zephos, Azwan, Verdante, Amphousa, Geoth, Grendath, Jareth, Taurusk, Ahrianna, Mongrel, and Ulura, at the least. Divine bards of some of these gods would be very restricted in alignment choices. I, uh, don't think I'm going to spend any time right now attempting to create fluff for divine bards of specific traditions. Seems a little pointless for an unapproved class variant! If it passed, I'd contribute where I felt I had something to say, of course, but I'd rather leave a lot of it up to (a) anyone who has particularly proprietary feelings towards a deity, as well as (b) any eventual divine bard player. As usual, I'd not like to see anything too proscriptive: I'd not want someone who had a firm idea for a divine bard of Zephos as a Good (well, true neutral!) Shepherd-type figure (incidentally, you can't take two steps without tripping over medieval songs about shepherds! Hé, bergier! Pastorele, gente et bele!) to be told that it was out of the question, because his divine bards conduct funerary rites, or recite odes in memory of fallen heroes, for example. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Playing the Game
Play by Post
Living Worlds
Living EN World
Divine Bard (Approved)
Top