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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hollywood" data-source="post: 1472675" data-attributes="member: 7408">Yeah, the player that is doing the giant is pretty darn good as a player or as a DM, so its not an issue.  Should be quite interesting next session when the giant gets introduced.Actually I do this quite a bit too.. but its usually just a trade of a class ability for a feat of some sort.  Yeah, to some degree thats what I was thinking.  Except its not really a "wizard" or "sorcerer"... more along the lines of "innate ability" but not quite at that level.Yup, most definetly!  Just like a prestige class.Yes, this is true.  However, the stated goal for the character was along the lines of "innate abilities that allow him to boost himself or expand his abilities".  In some ways, you could almost say, a poor fantasy man's version of a, eeeerg, jedi.  So offensive spells would be very limited if none that are known.Yeah, although probably easiest to do it by making certain schools of magic offlimits than creating all new spell lists.There is an ok feat in I believe the netbook of feats called Armored Casting that I think gives you a -10% adjustment to the casting penalty.  I am in full agreement, although I don't really think Monte did enough with his alternate sorcerer, but we've come up with one for our group... hasn't done any real unbalancing; but we have a single-class sorcerer coming onboard soon so that'll be the real test...  as counterpoint, here it is:Game Rule InformationSorcerers have the following game statistics.Abilities: See page 50 of the Player's Handbook.Alignment: Any.Hit Die: d6. Class SkillsThe sorcerer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int, exclusive skill), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Pick Pocket (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex). See Chapter 4: Skills for skill descriptions.Skill Points at 1st level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Class FeaturesAll the following are class features of the sorcerer.Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sorcerers are proficient with club, dagger (any type), dart, crossbow (light), halfspear, quarterstaff, shortspear and unarmed.Spells: Refer to page 50 of the Player's Handbook. Sorcerers get bonus spells known based on their Intelligence ability. When a sorcerer gains a level, he may elect to replace spells he knows currently with new spells that he attempts to learn from scrolls, or other means. Any number of currently known spells may be replaced but once replaced, the sorcerer must relearn the spell if he wishes to have it as a known spell again.Bonus Feat: A sorcerer can choose a bonus General feat pertaining to arcane magic, i.e. Combat Casting, Improved Counterspell, Improved Familiar, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus, or Spell Penetration are good examples. They may choose to take the Summon Familiar ability.Eschew Material Components: Since sorcerers are innate, inborn users of the Weave, they do need to utilize the same material components and focuses as wizards. For all intent and purpose, the sorcerer becomes the one and only material component of his spells. However, spells that have a costly material component or focus [i.e. over 1gp in value] require something extra of the sorcerer. A price of 1/25th of the gold piece value of the component and/or focus must be paid with XP, a minimum of 1 XP loss. This is in addition to any spells that also require an expenditure of experience points. It is suggested that if this feature is used, that Bonus Feats not be granted to the character. Additionally, this feature may only be used if the DM requires material components in his campaign.Summon Familiar: Refer to the Summon Familiar ability on page 50 of the Player's Handbook, page 9 of Tome and Blood and page 57 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. However, a sorcerer's familiar does not increase its special abilities as rapidly as a wizard's familiar; consult Table 3-19a in this document instead of 3-19 in the Player's Handbook.Scrying: Sorcerers, like other spellusers, can scry on persons through magical means. As such, sorcerers get access to the Scry skill as an exclusive skill, but it is not a class skill. Table 3-16a: Alt.SorcererLevel BaseAttack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells Per Day 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Eschew Material Components, Bonus Feat 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3  3rd +1 +1 +1 +3  4th +2 +1 +1 +4  5th +2 +1 +1 +4  6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Bonus Feat 7th +3 +2 +2 +5  8th +4 +2 +2 +6  9th +4 +2 +2 +6  10th +5 +3 +3 +7  See Table 3-16 on page 49 of the Player's Handbook 11th +5 +3 +3 +7  12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8  13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Bonus Feat 14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9  15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9  16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10  17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10  18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11  19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11  20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Bonus Feat Table 3-17a: Spells Known  Spells Known Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 5 2  - - - - - - - 2 5 3 - - - - - - - - 3 6 3 - - - - - - - - 4 6 4 2 - - - - - - - 5 7 4 2 - - - - - - - 6 7 4 3 2 - - - - - - 7 8 5 3 2 - - - - - - 8 8 5 4 3 2 - - - - - 9 9 5 4 3 2 - - - - - 10 9 5 4 4 3 2 - - - - 11 9 5 5 4 3 2 - - - - 12 9 5 5 4 4 3 2 - - - 13 9 5 5 5 4 3 2 - - - 14 9 5 5 5 4 4 3 2 - - 15 9 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 - - 16 9 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 2 - 17 9 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 - 18 9 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 2 19 9 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 3 20 9 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 Table 3-19a: Familiar Special Abilities MasterClass Level NaturalArmor Int Special 1-2 +1 6 Alertness, improved evasion, share spells, empathic link 3-4 +2 7  5-6 +3 8 Touch 7-8 +4 9 Speak with master 9-10 +5 10 Speak with animals of its type 11-12 +6 11  13-14 +7 12 Spell Resistance 15-16 +8 13  17-18 +9 14 Scry on familiar 19-20 +10 15  ErrataAmended Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know and a single word that must be spoken. This means that if a wizard picks up a spell trigger activation item (such as a wand or staff) and that item stores a wizard spell, she knows how to use it. Specifically, anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin). In the instance of bards and sorcerers, only their Spells Known count towards a list of trigger items they can use. These two classes essentially create their own spell lists. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Reference, Dungeon Master's Guide, page 175, paragraph 5.Identify Spell: If a sorcerer has the Identify in his personal spell list, the sorcerer is not able to cast the eight hour version of the spell.</blockquote>

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