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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6777696" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>I like your proposal because it's very simple.</p><p></p><p>In 3ed at some point we started to have some fun with class and rules variants (in my main gaming group), and one of them was in fact to have <em>all</em> caster classes in the game learn spells either like a Sorcerer (fixed number) or a Wizard (fixed number + costly option to scribe more). We also let domain spells always be on top of the fixed number.</p><p></p><p>I don't think there is much reason for still having classes that automatically know all the spells in their list, either than tradition. In 5e we got a newcomer to the "pick your spells known" club, and that's the Ranger, who in 3e was like all other divine casters.</p><p></p><p>Granted, in 5e it's not a big deal since we get so little supplementary material anyway, but for us in 3e it did become a problem with the flood of spells from supplements. I really think that "know all the spells in the list" was detrimental once hundreds of divine spells were available for a variety of reasons:</p><p></p><p>1) A savvy Cleric/Druid player was always just a long rest away from potentially any capability</p><p>2) Beginner players were overwhelmed already by the PHB list</p><p>3) All Clerics felt too similar</p><p></p><p>so our house rule helped these because beginners would just pick something like 3 new known spells per level (more at 1st), the Cleric was not anymore the "I can do anything... tomorrow" character, and there was a HUGE difference between clerics of different deities & domains to the point that a lot of players started to want to play clerics just because their identities were strengthened (although we also re-designed the domains and stripped the "generic cleric spells list" of all but the really generic spells -> and key uber spells like Heal and Harm became domain-only).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 6777696, member: 1465"] I like your proposal because it's very simple. In 3ed at some point we started to have some fun with class and rules variants (in my main gaming group), and one of them was in fact to have [I]all[/I] caster classes in the game learn spells either like a Sorcerer (fixed number) or a Wizard (fixed number + costly option to scribe more). We also let domain spells always be on top of the fixed number. I don't think there is much reason for still having classes that automatically know all the spells in their list, either than tradition. In 5e we got a newcomer to the "pick your spells known" club, and that's the Ranger, who in 3e was like all other divine casters. Granted, in 5e it's not a big deal since we get so little supplementary material anyway, but for us in 3e it did become a problem with the flood of spells from supplements. I really think that "know all the spells in the list" was detrimental once hundreds of divine spells were available for a variety of reasons: 1) A savvy Cleric/Druid player was always just a long rest away from potentially any capability 2) Beginner players were overwhelmed already by the PHB list 3) All Clerics felt too similar so our house rule helped these because beginners would just pick something like 3 new known spells per level (more at 1st), the Cleric was not anymore the "I can do anything... tomorrow" character, and there was a HUGE difference between clerics of different deities & domains to the point that a lot of players started to want to play clerics just because their identities were strengthened (although we also re-designed the domains and stripped the "generic cleric spells list" of all but the really generic spells -> and key uber spells like Heal and Harm became domain-only). [/QUOTE]
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