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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Divine Challenge + Certain Justice = Solo Killer?
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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 4426093" data-attributes="member: 51942"><p>Well, perhaps, to an extent - but it depends on your party composition. Paladin's simply are better on 1-1, so a party with a fighter will be less overpowering.</p><p></p><p>Which says more about the needlefang's than the white dragon, IMHO... If you look at the DMG guidelines there's no way the non-solo 1 level lower drake swarm should be able to have comparable defenses. And when it comes to AC and to-hit, soldiers (like the drake swarm) just are really good. The comparison is further skewed since the dragon's are brutes; their advantage lies partly in their higher hit points which aren't reflected in WotC's (flawed) hit point calculation method for solo's. A party with non-AC attacks might take the swarm on more easily, esp. if it's an area effect, and esp if the defense difference were there (as it should be).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I just DM'd a 3.5 combat vs. an (effectively) solo BBEG, and the combat took several rounds of back and forth. I expect in 4e too there are strategies to minimize the impact of many status effects. Dazed, for instance, can be mitigated with action points, and specifically certain justice can be removed simply by staying out of reach of the paladin for one round - something a flying dragon, say, with 2 actions points should be able to achieve without great difficulty.</p><p></p><p>In any case, a certain justice does actually need to <em>hit</em> to have effect, and solo's also have a defense bonus, so this is harder to do to a solo than to a normal creature.</p><p></p><p>So, sure, using reasonable tactics works well - but it's not a sure win, and it's an intrinsic disadvantage of single targets, which isn't necessarily a problem with the rule-set but a reflection of reality, insofar that applies here ;-).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eamon, post: 4426093, member: 51942"] Well, perhaps, to an extent - but it depends on your party composition. Paladin's simply are better on 1-1, so a party with a fighter will be less overpowering. Which says more about the needlefang's than the white dragon, IMHO... If you look at the DMG guidelines there's no way the non-solo 1 level lower drake swarm should be able to have comparable defenses. And when it comes to AC and to-hit, soldiers (like the drake swarm) just are really good. The comparison is further skewed since the dragon's are brutes; their advantage lies partly in their higher hit points which aren't reflected in WotC's (flawed) hit point calculation method for solo's. A party with non-AC attacks might take the swarm on more easily, esp. if it's an area effect, and esp if the defense difference were there (as it should be). I just DM'd a 3.5 combat vs. an (effectively) solo BBEG, and the combat took several rounds of back and forth. I expect in 4e too there are strategies to minimize the impact of many status effects. Dazed, for instance, can be mitigated with action points, and specifically certain justice can be removed simply by staying out of reach of the paladin for one round - something a flying dragon, say, with 2 actions points should be able to achieve without great difficulty. In any case, a certain justice does actually need to [i]hit[/i] to have effect, and solo's also have a defense bonus, so this is harder to do to a solo than to a normal creature. So, sure, using reasonable tactics works well - but it's not a sure win, and it's an intrinsic disadvantage of single targets, which isn't necessarily a problem with the rule-set but a reflection of reality, insofar that applies here ;-). [/QUOTE]
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Divine Challenge + Certain Justice = Solo Killer?
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