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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Divine Challenge: Switching targets means you don't have to engage?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 5003132" data-attributes="member: 1656"><p>Let's say I have three boxes full of pebbles, and a key.</p><p></p><p>The rules: </p><p></p><p>If a box is open at the end of a round, and I have not taken a pebble out of it that round, it will explode.</p><p></p><p>I can only close a box by removing the key and opening another box.</p><p></p><p>I can only open one box in any given round.</p><p></p><p>----</p><p></p><p>So I have a Box 1 open. In this round, I can either a/ remove a pebble, or b/ close Box 1 by opening Box 2. If I do neither, Box 1 will explode.</p><p></p><p>If I choose not to remove a pebble, and open Box 2, then Box 2 is set to be open at the end of the round. Unless I remove a pebble or open Box 3, Box 2 will explode... and since I've already opened a box this round, opening Box 3 isn't an option. <em>I must remove a pebble from Box 2</em> if I don't want it to explode.</p><p></p><p>----</p><p></p><p>Now I'm a Paladin with three opponents, and I used Divine Challenge on opponent 1 earlier. We'll call this use of Divine Challenge C1.</p><p></p><p>The rules for C1 say that I must either engage opponent 1 before the end of the round, or challenge another opponent... or my Divine Challenge will cease to function.</p><p></p><p>If I choose not to engage opponent 1, I must therefore challenge opponent 2. We'll call this use of Divine Challenge C2.</p><p></p><p>Now that I've used the power, the rules for C2 say that I must either engage opponent 2 before the end of the round, or challenge another opponent... or my Divine Challenge will cease to function. And I can't challenge opponent 3, because I've already used Divine Challenge this round.</p><p></p><p>Therefore if I don't engage opponent 2, my Divine Challenge will cease to function. Not because I failed the conditions of C1 - I met those by challenging another opponent. Because I failed the conditions of C2.</p><p></p><p>-----</p><p></p><p>Consider a hypothetical power - Minor Action. Mark the target. If you do not say the target's name before the end of the round, take 1d6 damage.</p><p></p><p>I use a minor action to mark Fred, and I use a minor action to mark Bob. If I say "Fred", I won't take the 1d6 damage from that use of the power. But if I don't say "Bob", I'll still take 1d6 damage, <em>even though I said "Fred"</em>, because the rules apply to the second use of the power as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>People don't.</p><p></p><p>They think that in response to the requirement of the first use of Divine Challenge, he must do A or B, and he chose one of them - B (challenge an opponent other than the target of the first use of Divine Challenge). Then, in response to the requirement of the <em>second</em> use of Divine Challenge, he must do A or B. But he can't choose B (challenge an opponent other than the target of the second use of Divine Challenge) this time, because of the restriction on the power of only choosing B once per round... which means that his only option in response to the requirement of the second use of Divine Challenge is A - engage the target of the second use of Divine Challenge.</p><p></p><p>-Hyp.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 5003132, member: 1656"] Let's say I have three boxes full of pebbles, and a key. The rules: If a box is open at the end of a round, and I have not taken a pebble out of it that round, it will explode. I can only close a box by removing the key and opening another box. I can only open one box in any given round. ---- So I have a Box 1 open. In this round, I can either a/ remove a pebble, or b/ close Box 1 by opening Box 2. If I do neither, Box 1 will explode. If I choose not to remove a pebble, and open Box 2, then Box 2 is set to be open at the end of the round. Unless I remove a pebble or open Box 3, Box 2 will explode... and since I've already opened a box this round, opening Box 3 isn't an option. [i]I must remove a pebble from Box 2[/i] if I don't want it to explode. ---- Now I'm a Paladin with three opponents, and I used Divine Challenge on opponent 1 earlier. We'll call this use of Divine Challenge C1. The rules for C1 say that I must either engage opponent 1 before the end of the round, or challenge another opponent... or my Divine Challenge will cease to function. If I choose not to engage opponent 1, I must therefore challenge opponent 2. We'll call this use of Divine Challenge C2. Now that I've used the power, the rules for C2 say that I must either engage opponent 2 before the end of the round, or challenge another opponent... or my Divine Challenge will cease to function. And I can't challenge opponent 3, because I've already used Divine Challenge this round. Therefore if I don't engage opponent 2, my Divine Challenge will cease to function. Not because I failed the conditions of C1 - I met those by challenging another opponent. Because I failed the conditions of C2. ----- Consider a hypothetical power - Minor Action. Mark the target. If you do not say the target's name before the end of the round, take 1d6 damage. I use a minor action to mark Fred, and I use a minor action to mark Bob. If I say "Fred", I won't take the 1d6 damage from that use of the power. But if I don't say "Bob", I'll still take 1d6 damage, [i]even though I said "Fred"[/i], because the rules apply to the second use of the power as well. People don't. They think that in response to the requirement of the first use of Divine Challenge, he must do A or B, and he chose one of them - B (challenge an opponent other than the target of the first use of Divine Challenge). Then, in response to the requirement of the [i]second[/i] use of Divine Challenge, he must do A or B. But he can't choose B (challenge an opponent other than the target of the second use of Divine Challenge) this time, because of the restriction on the power of only choosing B once per round... which means that his only option in response to the requirement of the second use of Divine Challenge is A - engage the target of the second use of Divine Challenge. -Hyp. [/QUOTE]
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Divine Challenge: Switching targets means you don't have to engage?
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