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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rushlight" data-source="post: 1609455" data-attributes="member: 3801">Well first, doing something you normally couldn't and doing something that seriously abuses the rules are two different beasts.  Exceeding the normal spell limit with metamagic feats can be very unbalancing - and since I don't want to go through the book spell by spell sorting which spells are balanced or not with this ability I just banned this ability.  Second, I've banned Shadowdancer as well (because the rules are so undefined for that class it leads to too many arguments).So it costs a feat - so do most abilities and that's not a big deal.  Also, none of the text I've seen says that the modified feat cannot be used in it's normal fashion, so you haven't lost the use of the feat you previously had.  Third, the main balancing feature of the Divine Metamagic feat is that it takes turn attempts in place of extra spell levels.  That is just absurd.  Any cleric of moderate level will have FAR more turn attepmts than they need in a normal day (if they ever even use ANY!).  Certainly they have more turn attepmts than they do higher level spell slots.  So this feat exchanges the cost of the improved spell from a valuable and limited commodity (the balancing feature, a higher spell slot) to a non-valuable, more abundant commodity (turn attempts, which a cleric will usually have in surplus).  Not to mention that the modified spell can exceed the bounds of the original feat.  So for the cost of a feat you get a better metamagic feat, that costs far less to use than the usual feat.  And it's better.  That's broken.  Why not give a fighter a feat that lets him replace his hit points with his available gold?  So he loses GP instead of HP.  Sure, it costs a feat so it's balanced - but it doesn't really matter if you've swapped a valuable resources (HPs) for a much more available resources (GPs).  Would YOU allow this in a game?Heh, and they are all banned from my game.  Turn attempts aren't that valuable.  There's a ton of them, especially at higher levels.  Plus they are only desgined to be useful against one type of monster - undead - and usually lower level ones at that.  That's what Turning was designed to do.  Who ever thought of taking a minor, abundant ability and switch it for valuable, powerful abilities was not thinking about game balance.  Why not allow a fighter to exchange his fourth swing (which almost always misses) for a significant bonus to his first three swings, or to his saves, or his AC?  Oh, I allowed the rods in the beginning.  They quickly got out of hand - who wouldn't want a free maximize or whatever?  Besides, "3 times per day" often means "3 times per encounter" - not to mention the use of multiple rods.  What you've done is exchanged higher level spell slots for GP.  A careful adventurer will have far more GP than higher level spell slots.In your search for balance, be wary of abilities that give additional bonuses while lowering the cost.  Going this route will lead to overpowered PCs, lopsided combats, and usually an un-fun game.  Unless you either like your PCs to win every combat hands-down, with no sweat - or like killing your PCs with monsters far above their level (just so the monster gets a round or two in before the PCs squish it).</blockquote>

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