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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Falling Icicle" data-source="post: 1609999" data-attributes="member: 17077">Have you ever seen what happens to a 13th level wizard who gets hit by a delayed blast fireball and quickened fireball in the same round? A 13th level Wizard can do this, and he doesn't need to be an Incantatrix.Every prestige class gives a character an area of specialty where he is better than equivalent characters. That's the whole point of prestige classes. If they weren't better at the abilities they focus in, then why put up with the requirements, restrictions, etc of a prestige class?Of course it works. Lets say you take Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) as a Cleric so that you can do some of the power plays that have been mentioned before. First, you must take the Persistent Spell metamagic, and since that feat has such a ridiculous cost, you aren't likely to use it except with divine metamagic. So the orignal feat is pretty much a waste. And you get to use the persistance, what, once a day? Woo hoo! That's worth two feats, especially when all it takes to ruin your "munchkin" fun is a dispel magic. And god knows, any spellcaster with half a brain has at least one of those prepared.Now that is just plain false. Wizards need items and equipment as much as or more than anyone else. Sure a 17th level Wizard has a few hundred k to spend on items, but how much of that wealth do you think went just to his spellbooks? A spellbook library costs more than any warrior's "golfbag" of weapons! Not to mention costly material components, staves, scrolls, wands, bracers of armor, ring of wizardry, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, headband of intillect, cloak of resistance, a golem bodyguard, etc etc etc. The Wizard is the biggest money vaccuum of all the classes, bar none. I know this from personal experience because I like to play Wizards, and have also played just about everything else in this game at some point.Now this is just unbelievable. After playing both the 3.0 and 3.5 Incantatrix, I can say that the 3.5 is unquestionably superior to its predecessor. In fact, we had to cut out all but one of the bonus feats just to make it more balanced. Not only does it get several incredibly powerful and useful abilities, it gets FOUR bonus feats! And the new abilities it has are much more useful and much more powerful than the abilities is lost (save the immunity to energy drain and death effects it had in 3.0). In fact, what I'm about to say may shock you. The 3.5 Incantatrix is probably the most broken spellcasting prestige class in the game. But it's not broken because of Instant Metamagic, it's broken becasue it gets some of the coolest powers I've ever seen given to a spellcaster, and has four bonus feats on top of it. And the fact that metamgic effect and cooperative metamagic can each be used 3 + int bonus times per day leads to having so many free metamagics its mind boggling. We cut out all but one of the bonus feats and made it 3 + int bonus total times per day for those abilities. Its much more balanced with those modifications.And here's another thought for you to consider. If you think something is broken, if you have tried and tested it and it just doesn't work for your game, rather than going to the extreme of banning it, why not just change it to make it more reasonable for you? If you really think that Instant Metamagic is broken, perhaps you can rule that it can't raise a spell above the normal maximum spell level, or you can make the character roll a Spellcraft check DC 18 + (3 x adjusted spell level), like the Metamagic Effect ability? If you don't think that the Shadowdancer's Hide in Plain Sight is clear enough, why not clarify it yourself? Like I said above, we think that the Incantatrix is horribly broken, but rather than just ban it from play, we changed a few things and now it works very well for us.Isn't that a less extreme solution than banning half of the game material from your table?</blockquote>

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