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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nifft" data-source="post: 3413183" data-attributes="member: 6562">So, you are still comparing this class to a single-class Rogue and a single-class Cleric and deciding that it's not strictly better than either, and therefore it's balanced?The thing to look at isn't if it gets more skill points than a Rogue and better HP than a Cleric. That would be obviously broken. The thing to look at is: how much better than an Arcane Trickster is it?1/2 BAB vs. 3/4 BAB -- DT wins.d4 HD vs. d6 HD -- DT wins.Enter at level 9 vs. level 7 -- DT wins.Levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10: sameLevel 1: Ranged Legerdemain 1/day vs. Surprise for the Dead -- huge win for DTLevel 3: Impromptu Sneak Attack 1/day vs. Trap Guidance -- tieLevel 5: Ranged Legerdemain 2/day vs. Domain Flexibility -- huge win for DT. people often complain that Clerics get access to many of the best Sorc/Wiz spells. Now here's one who can cast some of the best ones more often than a Wizard, while not needing to actually limit his selection like a Sorcerer. Huge win for DT.Level 7: Impromptu Sneak Attack 2/day vs. Hide in Plain Sight -- "free" here means "without having to take a sucky level of Shadowdancer, which otherwise one would never ever do". Huge win for the DT.Level 9: Ranged Legerdemain 3/day vs. Slippery Mind -- strong, and unnecessary. The class grants a good Will save, as does the dude's Cleric levels, AND he's going to have a high Wisdom bonus ... it's just way too much. Huge win for the DT.Basically, the Arcane Trickster gets full sneak attack, full spellcasting, and a few flavor abilities.The DT should be the same, but modified as Rich has done to allow easier entry -- it really is sucky to play the precursor to either DT or AT, so speedy entry is very nice. But once you're in, you shouldn't get full advancement of both good class features AND a bunch of strong bonuses.Finally, most of your points about how the DT loses out on stuff apply even more to the AT.For example, Arcane Tricksters can't wear any armor (if they want to cast spells reliably) -- that's a net loss from the Rogue side. A DT who ever wants a chance of using his Trickery domain spells won't be in heavy armor anyway -- so it's really no loss at all there. DT can wear Light armor with no penalty. Again, win for the DT.Granting free feats, free abilities from other PrCs, free spells (super-extended gravestrike at 1st level), and free Rogue Special Abilities is just too strong, especially when you consider that you can actually enter after level 6 with only ONE level of spellcasting lost (via Halfling racial substitution level).Cheers, -- N</blockquote>

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