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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 5837022" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>Well, that's your opinion of his writing - I disagree.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Or maybe I am and you're not.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>You say that, and yet your previous post was concerned with fantasy overall, rather than with D&D specifically (emphasis mine):</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So it certainly looks like you made it relevant to your post.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Except that it hadn't been on the wane, and had been experiencing a revival, hence why there were all sorts of reprints and re-releases happening.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's one way to describe it - another is that Gary did include a very small number of homages to the Lord of the Rings by including elves, dwarves, and hobbits as playable races, and having a few iconic monsters in the game (e.g. ents, balrogs, ringwraiths, etc.), and (later) a ranger class. That's roughly it as far as Tolkien material goes.</p><p></p><p>Considering that D&D's original three classes were the (medieval, not Arthurian) fighting man, the magic-user, and the (Hammer Horror films-inspired) cleric, that's not very Arthurian in terms of what's there. I'll grant that the paladin, which came later, could be called Arthurian (though it strikes me more as being modeled after Charlemagne), and there is an <a href="http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/12/implicit-christianity-of-early-gaming.html" target="_blank">implicit Christianity</a> to early D&D (to reference another "specious" article), but nothing overtly Arthurian.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is debatable. Some people came to the game with those expectations, others didn't. However, the game itself seems (to me) to be clearly favoring a non-epic playstyle in its earliest years (by which I mean that it didn't lean towards grandiose heroics so much as ne'er-do-wells getting into trouble).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Leaving aside that your calling that "completely wrong" is in and of itself completely wrong, I disagree with your assertion as to what constitutes old school. Even leaving aside that the self-evident Old School Renaissance disagrees with your definition (since otherwise it'd be the New School Renaissance), and that your experience is admittedly anecdotal, there's a degree to which the play-style is encouraged by the game itself (though this can be overcome), and it seems to me that this is what the game was encouraging in its earliest years.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I won't say that that hasn't always been there, just that it wasn't where the game originally oriented itself. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is the cyclical nature of things. The old school was gritty fantasy, then the new school of epic, heroic fantasy came along. Now the old school is what's new again.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 5837022, member: 8461"] Well, that's your opinion of his writing - I disagree. Or maybe I am and you're not. You say that, and yet your previous post was concerned with fantasy overall, rather than with D&D specifically (emphasis mine): So it certainly looks like you made it relevant to your post. Except that it hadn't been on the wane, and had been experiencing a revival, hence why there were all sorts of reprints and re-releases happening. That's one way to describe it - another is that Gary did include a very small number of homages to the Lord of the Rings by including elves, dwarves, and hobbits as playable races, and having a few iconic monsters in the game (e.g. ents, balrogs, ringwraiths, etc.), and (later) a ranger class. That's roughly it as far as Tolkien material goes. Considering that D&D's original three classes were the (medieval, not Arthurian) fighting man, the magic-user, and the (Hammer Horror films-inspired) cleric, that's not very Arthurian in terms of what's there. I'll grant that the paladin, which came later, could be called Arthurian (though it strikes me more as being modeled after Charlemagne), and there is an [url=http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/12/implicit-christianity-of-early-gaming.html]implicit Christianity[/url] to early D&D (to reference another "specious" article), but nothing overtly Arthurian. This is debatable. Some people came to the game with those expectations, others didn't. However, the game itself seems (to me) to be clearly favoring a non-epic playstyle in its earliest years (by which I mean that it didn't lean towards grandiose heroics so much as ne'er-do-wells getting into trouble). Leaving aside that your calling that "completely wrong" is in and of itself completely wrong, I disagree with your assertion as to what constitutes old school. Even leaving aside that the self-evident Old School Renaissance disagrees with your definition (since otherwise it'd be the New School Renaissance), and that your experience is admittedly anecdotal, there's a degree to which the play-style is encouraged by the game itself (though this can be overcome), and it seems to me that this is what the game was encouraging in its earliest years. I won't say that that hasn't always been there, just that it wasn't where the game originally oriented itself. This is the cyclical nature of things. The old school was gritty fantasy, then the new school of epic, heroic fantasy came along. Now the old school is what's new again. [/QUOTE]
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