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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 5837287" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>So, "fantasy overall" means "all fantasy except that from the 20's and 30's"?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I already mentioned the various reprints and re-releases from the 20's and 30's that were coming out at that time. That they'd been released again is itself a suggestion that the market for such material was reinvigorated. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My understanding is that it was.</p><p></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>I'd say you need to check your face again. Nobody used the word "proof" but it's certainly more suggestive of my interpretation than yours.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Hence why I want to talk about the game, and not the players.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>By the time the 80's started, the New School was already in full swing (Dragonlance was the big debut for this sort of gaming), but before that most of the modules were indeed lacking of any sort of plot at all. Unto itself, this could be taken any way at all, but I do think that there's something to be said for, at the very least, that that doesn't slant the game towards epic heroism.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>As you noted, the XP system is a nod towards the style of game that I'm saying was there. Likewise, I'll admit that it's subtle, but that doesn't mean it's not present.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>I don't disagree here - as I said, I don't think the OSR is united in their remembrance of what the "old school" was like. I'm simply saying that one of the central pillars of the old school is the rejection of epic heroism in their characters. Even then, I'll note that there are disagreements (especially when you get into questions of what constitutes "epic heroism").</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>You've already mentioned the "XP for GP" part of the rules, which is a big nod in that direction (though I don't know why you keep highlighting "prove"). As I noted, it's not definitive, but it's a major indicator that a major purpose of the game was to get rich.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>First of all, you're wrong in what was in my original post. I simply said that the game originally assumed that the PCs were rogues on the make. You've clearly read something else in "rogues" (or perhaps "on the make"). Likewise, you clearly understood the "XP for GP" part of the rules, all the while saying that you don't know what I'm talking about? That's disingenuous.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>False. See above.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Again, see above.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>A (I suspect deliberate) misinterpretation on your part. I think it's foolish and wrong to assume that the current state of fantasy fiction has nothing to do with previous styles of fantasy fiction. You said that you think the current state of fantasy has nothing to do with how fantasy used to be written; I think that view is ignorant of the impact that previous authors have had on the current authors and readers, especially at a time when older works are more accessible than ever before.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>I think that this view is tragically misguided. Even overlooking how many contemporary authors claim to have been influenced by older authors, the sheer prevalence of past works being made available to people is not only great, but increasing. Works that could only be found in certain libraries are now to be found in most bookstores, and can often be found on various websites. To say that these are being brought back into the public consciousness, while denying that they have any influence, is to be completely blind to not just the obvious, but also to ignore the simple "cause and effect" nature of influence within a single genre.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 5837287, member: 8461"] So, "fantasy overall" means "all fantasy except that from the 20's and 30's"? I already mentioned the various reprints and re-releases from the 20's and 30's that were coming out at that time. That they'd been released again is itself a suggestion that the market for such material was reinvigorated. My understanding is that it was. [i] I'd say you need to check your face again. Nobody used the word "proof" but it's certainly more suggestive of my interpretation than yours. Hence why I want to talk about the game, and not the players. By the time the 80's started, the New School was already in full swing (Dragonlance was the big debut for this sort of gaming), but before that most of the modules were indeed lacking of any sort of plot at all. Unto itself, this could be taken any way at all, but I do think that there's something to be said for, at the very least, that that doesn't slant the game towards epic heroism. As you noted, the XP system is a nod towards the style of game that I'm saying was there. Likewise, I'll admit that it's subtle, but that doesn't mean it's not present. I don't disagree here - as I said, I don't think the OSR is united in their remembrance of what the "old school" was like. I'm simply saying that one of the central pillars of the old school is the rejection of epic heroism in their characters. Even then, I'll note that there are disagreements (especially when you get into questions of what constitutes "epic heroism"). You've already mentioned the "XP for GP" part of the rules, which is a big nod in that direction (though I don't know why you keep highlighting "prove"). As I noted, it's not definitive, but it's a major indicator that a major purpose of the game was to get rich. First of all, you're wrong in what was in my original post. I simply said that the game originally assumed that the PCs were rogues on the make. You've clearly read something else in "rogues" (or perhaps "on the make"). Likewise, you clearly understood the "XP for GP" part of the rules, all the while saying that you don't know what I'm talking about? That's disingenuous. False. See above. Again, see above. A (I suspect deliberate) misinterpretation on your part. I think it's foolish and wrong to assume that the current state of fantasy fiction has nothing to do with previous styles of fantasy fiction. You said that you think the current state of fantasy has nothing to do with how fantasy used to be written; I think that view is ignorant of the impact that previous authors have had on the current authors and readers, especially at a time when older works are more accessible than ever before. I think that this view is tragically misguided. Even overlooking how many contemporary authors claim to have been influenced by older authors, the sheer prevalence of past works being made available to people is not only great, but increasing. Works that could only be found in certain libraries are now to be found in most bookstores, and can often be found on various websites. To say that these are being brought back into the public consciousness, while denying that they have any influence, is to be completely blind to not just the obvious, but also to ignore the simple "cause and effect" nature of influence within a single genre.[/i] [/QUOTE]
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