DM advice: How do you NOT kill your party?

[Afrodactyl]

I'm not afraid to fudge dice rolls, and I will often have a plan laid aside should the party start taking a shoeing.

Quite often it's the party being taken prisoner or being dragged off to a lair if it's a TPK, or the monster (if intelligent) not deeming the party worthy of an honourable death in combat and leaving them to die whilst he leaves to carry on with his day and clean the blood from his weapon (conveniently allowing the party to eventually recover).

I've also had plenty of monsters flee or retreat when they reach a certain threshold (even if the party would have eventually lost).

If the party are fighting dumb creatures or wild predatory animals and it goes south though, then they're gonna die.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The DM as a neutral arbiter and referee is a position as old as the game itself.

Older, still: it's a vision of the DMs job ("Judge" - as in "Judges' Guild," yep) that came from the game's wargaming roots. Very complex wargames that pre-existed chainmail would use a 'judge' to settle rules issues between competing players. Arguably the role of DM evolved from that.

But, I don't believe it has remained that. For one thing, players are no longer competing in pairs, but cooperating in parties.

 

[Arilyn]

The are options other than being combative OR overly cooperative. The DM as a neutral arbiter and referee is a position as old as the game itself. It is not the DM's job to save the PC's bacon or to slaughter them for personal amusement. Run the game honestly and fairly and let the dice fall where they may.

The problem with this idea is that we are letting pieces of plastic always have the final say. I fudge rolls as GM because sometimes the dice roll stupidly. The D20 in DnD is way too swingy. The irony is that DnD players are the ones who often shout the loudest against "fudging," but DnD is actually the only game I GM where I need to do some tweaking, in order to avoid dumb deaths. To be honest, 5e is not as bad as earlier editions, because characters seem more survivable. Anyway, my players are not going to want to fall down a pit trap and die before the end of the first session, so yeah, I'll fudge to avoid this.

And no, Saelorn, in my many years GMing, I've never had anyone walk away in disgust from my table, or become disenchanted with the hobby because of my "corrupt" ways.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

And no, Saelorn, in my many years GMing, I've never had anyone walk away in disgust from my table, or become disenchanted with the hobby because of my "corrupt" ways.

If you successfully corrupt a new player, then they're misled into believing that your method is the correct way, so the conflict comes when they try to play with someone who doesn't cheat.

 

[Harzel]

I always tailor boards for the players.

Me too. Especially the 2x4s that I whack them with!

 

[Arilyn]

If you successfully corrupt a new player, then they're misled into believing that your method is the correct way, so the conflict comes when they try to play with someone who doesn't cheat.

Nope. My players have happily played with a variety of different GMs, no anguish or conflict at all. Cause, guess what? There's lots and lots of different styles of rpging, as I believe you've been reminded of many a time.

But more seriously, if you want a more narrative style game, even a little, you kind of need to do some adjusting on the fly. I'm not just talking about fudging rolls, but making little adjustments as you go, cause who knew the players were going to go for an hour, rolling nothing higher than a 4, while the monsters can't seem to roll less than a 16. And now the players are wisely heading back to safe territory, so maybe, just maybe, it would be a good idea if I skipped the hobgoblin ambush I was planning.

The typical DnD game is full of combat and traps, way more danger than even the most pulpiest of heroes in fiction encounter. Players are rolling that d20 a lot. It's not a reliable die, and so of course there are streaks where the players can't catch a break. Some players are willing to let the die roll as it will, and stupid deaths are just part of the game. Many players, however, are not, because they are hoping to experience a type of story. They want the game to simulate narrative.

I will repeat my earlier point. DnD is the only game where I fudge. I don't need to do this in Fate, or Cortex or The One Ring, or even 13th Age. And as I mentioned its less in 5e. The stupid death syndrome is a feature of older versions of DnD, including PF. I think there's a reason it's fading.

Everybody plays the style they prefer, of course. And, although it's been said many times, you're not playing wrong if you're having fun.

 

[Caliban]

Nope. My players have happily played with a variety of different GMs, no anguish or conflict at all. Cause, guess what? There's lots and lots of different styles of rpging, as I believe you've been reminded of many a time.

The Prophet of Gaming has spoken and shared the One True Way with us. Do not attempt to corrupt us with your seductive tales of fun and fudging of die rolls!

 

[Arilyn]

The Prophet of Gaming has spoken and shared the One True Way with us. Do not attempt to corrupt us with your seductive tales of fun and fudging of die rolls!

I repent.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The typical DnD game is full of combat and traps, way more danger than even the most pulpiest of heroes in fiction encounter. Players are rolling that d20 a lot. It's not a reliable die, and so of course there are streaks where the players can't catch a break. Some players are willing to let the die roll as it will, and stupid deaths are just part of the game. Many players, however, are not, because they are hoping to experience a type of story. They want the game to simulate narrative.

I will repeat my earlier point. DnD is the only game where I fudge. I don't need to do this in Fate, or Cortex or The One Ring, or even 13th Age. And as I mentioned its less in 5e. The stupid death syndrome is a feature of older versions of DnD, including PF. I think there's a reason it's fading.

Dungeons & Dragons has never been an engine that was designed to generate a narrative, any more than the physical laws of the real world are designed to generate a particular narrative. The player characters are nothing like protagonists in some mere story - they don't have plot armor - and if you forget that, then the dice will be happy to remind you otherwise.

It honestly sounds to me like you don't enjoy the concept of playing a person who happens to live in fantastic world, and you would much rather be an actor playing a part in some sort of improvisational play. Which is fine, honestly, if that's your preference; just don't confuse an RPG like D&D for a story-telling game like any of the ones you mentioned.

 

[Arilyn]

Dungeons & Dragons has never been an engine that was designed to generate a narrative, any more than the physical laws of the real world are designed to generate a particular narrative. The player characters are nothing like protagonists in some mere story - they don't have plot armor - and if you forget that, then the dice will be happy to remind you otherwise.

It honestly sounds to me like you don't enjoy the concept of playing a person who happens to live in fantastic world, and you would much rather be an actor playing a part in some sort of improvisational play. Which is fine, honestly, if that's your preference; just don't confuse an RPG like D&D for a story-telling game like any of the ones you mentioned.

Lots of DnD players are looking for a narrative. It's the stated goal of the game, especially these days. Just read the introduction. It's all about living out the fantasy of being a hero, and creating exciting stories with your friends. New players come to the table, their minds full of Legolas or Conan and dwarves and wizards. They probably don't want their beloved character to die 15 minutes into the game. And I know you hate it, but those narrative indy techniques are creeping into DnD. Why? They help keep players alive and help with the story telling.

You're right about DnD not being my favourite game. I have fun with it, however, and it can be used to tell satisfying tales. And yes, I'm still role playing. The games I mentioned are all role playing games. We are not doing improvisational theatre. I am convinced that what's happening at my table, is in fact, pretty common.

If you restrict role playing games to a narrow band of "Saelorn's way", our hobby will be impoverished.