Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
DM Authority
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8161498" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Sure, nothing about my examples precludes that. </p><p></p><p>In fact, I would argue that unless it is of dire importance right in that moment, rules should always be discussed outside of the game. </p><p></p><p>I think the reason you bring up this example, is because you are conflating "final say" with "Ruling in the moment" but the advice always always always is that you make a quick call now, and then look up the real rule later and address how you will be moving forward, either with the split-second decision, or with the more researched answer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>True, but you'll notice I do keep mentioning that. </p><p></p><p>As an aside, I do wonder how much of that is because we always tell players they don't need to care. I've seen it where there is an attitude of "You don't need to worry about how it works, you just need to roll the dice and tell me what you are doing" which I imagine leads to a bit of complacency. </p><p></p><p>But even with simple player stuff, like planning, not knowing what you can do or how things work, can really hurt your ability to make good plans. Which makes me consider this not only a seperate issue, but one that is kind of troubling for the game as a whole.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See, but these two pieces are in opposition. </p><p></p><p>You say players are only going to think about what they want in the moment. But, they don't want an easy game. </p><p></p><p>And, thinking about these responses, and how often this comes up, it starts to seem like a lack of trust in the players. Not all of them, because you had that silent group that was content to let you as the DM handle the situation, but I feel like a lot of people want to declare the DM as an ultimate authority, because otherwise the players will cheat and break the game for their own short term amusement. </p><p></p><p>Sure, bad players are bad. But if we want to talk about DM authority in the abstract sense, where it derives from, where its limits are, I don't think relying on "but if I don't have the ultimate authority, bad players will cheat and break the game" is terribly helpful. </p><p></p><p>And, as you'll see in my other post, ignorance is a thing that can be fixed. I'm sure we would all agree that a player with a strong understanding of the game's balance is very often not causing problems by proposing things that break that balance. </p><p></p><p>Sure, a bad player won't care, but a good player will realize the balance implications, and instead of proposing "I want to do X" they may approach it was "I want to do something like X, but I can't think of a way to balance it, do you have any ideas?" Which, is a much more collaborative and easy process.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Guess I should have read your last point, but this is also... kind of an excuse, isn't it? </p><p></p><p>"My DM authority derives from the ignorance of my players about the rules" is a very poor foundation for authority, because it disappears once the players understand the rules, which should be the goal of the group. Maybe not every rule and every interaction, but educating yourself on how the game works often does lead to more fun for everyone.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8161498, member: 6801228"] Sure, nothing about my examples precludes that. In fact, I would argue that unless it is of dire importance right in that moment, rules should always be discussed outside of the game. I think the reason you bring up this example, is because you are conflating "final say" with "Ruling in the moment" but the advice always always always is that you make a quick call now, and then look up the real rule later and address how you will be moving forward, either with the split-second decision, or with the more researched answer. True, but you'll notice I do keep mentioning that. As an aside, I do wonder how much of that is because we always tell players they don't need to care. I've seen it where there is an attitude of "You don't need to worry about how it works, you just need to roll the dice and tell me what you are doing" which I imagine leads to a bit of complacency. But even with simple player stuff, like planning, not knowing what you can do or how things work, can really hurt your ability to make good plans. Which makes me consider this not only a seperate issue, but one that is kind of troubling for the game as a whole. See, but these two pieces are in opposition. You say players are only going to think about what they want in the moment. But, they don't want an easy game. And, thinking about these responses, and how often this comes up, it starts to seem like a lack of trust in the players. Not all of them, because you had that silent group that was content to let you as the DM handle the situation, but I feel like a lot of people want to declare the DM as an ultimate authority, because otherwise the players will cheat and break the game for their own short term amusement. Sure, bad players are bad. But if we want to talk about DM authority in the abstract sense, where it derives from, where its limits are, I don't think relying on "but if I don't have the ultimate authority, bad players will cheat and break the game" is terribly helpful. And, as you'll see in my other post, ignorance is a thing that can be fixed. I'm sure we would all agree that a player with a strong understanding of the game's balance is very often not causing problems by proposing things that break that balance. Sure, a bad player won't care, but a good player will realize the balance implications, and instead of proposing "I want to do X" they may approach it was "I want to do something like X, but I can't think of a way to balance it, do you have any ideas?" Which, is a much more collaborative and easy process. Guess I should have read your last point, but this is also... kind of an excuse, isn't it? "My DM authority derives from the ignorance of my players about the rules" is a very poor foundation for authority, because it disappears once the players understand the rules, which should be the goal of the group. Maybe not every rule and every interaction, but educating yourself on how the game works often does lead to more fun for everyone. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
DM Authority
Top