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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8165395" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>All of those are fair points, but there is an oddity standing out to me. Well, two at least. </p><p></p><p>1) You seem almost offended that he was so invested in your world that he was thinking up characters to put into it. Since your entire focus seems to be on how much of a bother it is to deal with, and not the content of the characters, I'm left to assume that they are perfectly fine characters, jut not yours. But... the reason that the art of Fanfiction exists is because people are so enthralled by the various worlds and characters that they desire to add to that story, or riff off of it. </p><p></p><p>2) Secondly... the part I bolded. You say that you have a special bond with the characters you create, that you run homebrew because you don't want to run other people's stuff... then you say the other players have the same problem.</p><p></p><p>But that doesn't make any sense. They don't create characters, they can't have a special bond to your characters in the way that you are saying, they aren't running homebrew worlds, they are playing in yours. So... do the other players not like these characters just because you don't like them and feel like you can't roleplay them? I don't understand what their objection is, because in terms of interacting with a character, it doesn't really matter to them who came up with the idea. </p><p></p><p>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oofta said they were rare. That he couldn't think of a single major disagreement in the last year and a half of gaming. </p><p></p><p>And no one challenged him on that, so I went forth with the information I've been presented with.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry... why is no compromise possible? Just because the ruling needs to be made one way or the other doesn't mean there can be no compromise. Agreeing to abide by one decision or the other can, in itself, be a compromise. </p><p></p><p>And the idea that two reasonable people couldn't come to an agreement is just kind of insane to me, heck, it would only take "Yeah, it might work RAW, but I feel like permanently killing the druid for scouting as a bird is a bit too much man." and the other person agreeing for the argument to be settled. RAW doesn't need to be the reason they agree on a ruling.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh look, even without reading this section first, I came to the same conclusion as you. </p><p></p><p>You and Me, Max, who argue incessantly, agree on a ruling. Yet you want me to believe that it is impossible for a group of people to come to an agreement without an outside force telling them "No, it shall be this way"? </p><p></p><p>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Might be hard to do without trespassing, but if you can, observe a playground at an elementary or middle school. </p><p></p><p>You'll see people playing soccer, football, basketball, four square, any number of games. And there are zero referees. None. </p><p></p><p>Next time you are at a large convention, check the board game room. Thousands upon thousands of board games get played, between complete strangers. Again, generally with no referees. </p><p></p><p></p><p>There is even a chance that when playing a game of DnD, one of these rules comes up that has two sides.... and everyone at the table is on the same side of the debate. Meaning there is no rules debate for the DM to referee. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't have a referee for most of my life. I still seem to do okay interacting and even sometimes disagreeing with other people. The idea that I am required to have a referee to decide things for me... that doesn't make sense.</p><p></p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What game? </p><p></p><p>I can sit at an empty table with my setting notes and dice, but there is no game going on. </p><p></p><p>You can tell me that the odds of that happening are nearly zero, but that doesn't change the cold hard facts at play. The game only exists if their are players to play it. If you sit down with books and binders stuffed full of notes and handcrafted terrain and a whole story in mind... and the rest of the seats are empty? There is no game. And the first thing you would do to fix that? You would look for people to play it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Honestly? </p><p></p><p>Perhaps neither can the DM. </p><p></p><p>A DM leaves, declaring the game over. The players decide that no, it isn't, and keep running the game. Maybe with a new DM, maybe not. They can do that, and the game would be different, but it wouldn't be over.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, so you are kind of just foisting your ideas of what a paladin is on them. I mean, Mounted Combat is about the last thing I'd think of with a Paladin character. At least until I got the spell. I don't really see what Armor has to do with anything, except I guess the Celtic equivalents in your world have a weaker military than the other people, since they aren't using equipment that might save their lives. </p><p></p><p>I mean, sure, people have to make sense for the world, but if you are defining things to the point of "People from this region won't use this equipment, and people with this class are required to use this equipment" then you are moving really far down the spectrum.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why? </p><p></p><p>Because you and the DM aren't on the same page about the rules? Or because the DM would get upset about you daring to tell someone else what the rules are? Honestly, the only time I step in when a player is explaining something is if I feel like they are doing a bad job of it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Seems to fill a lot of people with a lot of ego, but caring about the fun of other people, or worrying that the long term consequences of a ruling aren't somehow unique to DMs. </p><p></p><p>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>sigh</em></p><p></p><p>Of course we are going to say that it becomes infeasible if the NPC has access to things the players want. Because the idea of the players not trying to take every possible advantage no matter what has to be our default assumption, right? </p><p></p><p></p><p>I just run them like normal NPCs. If I'm unsure of somethings, then I might ask the author player some clarifying questions, but generally it isn't an issue. I don't find there is anything special about them. </p><p></p><p>Now, as a player, I've talked to me DM about certain... limits on the NPCs I write. For example, both times I've written a character who is married, I've told the DM that I have zero interest in them doing a subplot involving my character's wife cheating on them. </p><p></p><p>That story has zero interest for me, so I've told DMs not to do it. Which I think is rather fair.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8165395, member: 6801228"] All of those are fair points, but there is an oddity standing out to me. Well, two at least. 1) You seem almost offended that he was so invested in your world that he was thinking up characters to put into it. Since your entire focus seems to be on how much of a bother it is to deal with, and not the content of the characters, I'm left to assume that they are perfectly fine characters, jut not yours. But... the reason that the art of Fanfiction exists is because people are so enthralled by the various worlds and characters that they desire to add to that story, or riff off of it. 2) Secondly... the part I bolded. You say that you have a special bond with the characters you create, that you run homebrew because you don't want to run other people's stuff... then you say the other players have the same problem. But that doesn't make any sense. They don't create characters, they can't have a special bond to your characters in the way that you are saying, they aren't running homebrew worlds, they are playing in yours. So... do the other players not like these characters just because you don't like them and feel like you can't roleplay them? I don't understand what their objection is, because in terms of interacting with a character, it doesn't really matter to them who came up with the idea. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oofta said they were rare. That he couldn't think of a single major disagreement in the last year and a half of gaming. And no one challenged him on that, so I went forth with the information I've been presented with. I'm sorry... why is no compromise possible? Just because the ruling needs to be made one way or the other doesn't mean there can be no compromise. Agreeing to abide by one decision or the other can, in itself, be a compromise. And the idea that two reasonable people couldn't come to an agreement is just kind of insane to me, heck, it would only take "Yeah, it might work RAW, but I feel like permanently killing the druid for scouting as a bird is a bit too much man." and the other person agreeing for the argument to be settled. RAW doesn't need to be the reason they agree on a ruling. Oh look, even without reading this section first, I came to the same conclusion as you. You and Me, Max, who argue incessantly, agree on a ruling. Yet you want me to believe that it is impossible for a group of people to come to an agreement without an outside force telling them "No, it shall be this way"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Might be hard to do without trespassing, but if you can, observe a playground at an elementary or middle school. You'll see people playing soccer, football, basketball, four square, any number of games. And there are zero referees. None. Next time you are at a large convention, check the board game room. Thousands upon thousands of board games get played, between complete strangers. Again, generally with no referees. There is even a chance that when playing a game of DnD, one of these rules comes up that has two sides.... and everyone at the table is on the same side of the debate. Meaning there is no rules debate for the DM to referee. I don't have a referee for most of my life. I still seem to do okay interacting and even sometimes disagreeing with other people. The idea that I am required to have a referee to decide things for me... that doesn't make sense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What game? I can sit at an empty table with my setting notes and dice, but there is no game going on. You can tell me that the odds of that happening are nearly zero, but that doesn't change the cold hard facts at play. The game only exists if their are players to play it. If you sit down with books and binders stuffed full of notes and handcrafted terrain and a whole story in mind... and the rest of the seats are empty? There is no game. And the first thing you would do to fix that? You would look for people to play it. Honestly? Perhaps neither can the DM. A DM leaves, declaring the game over. The players decide that no, it isn't, and keep running the game. Maybe with a new DM, maybe not. They can do that, and the game would be different, but it wouldn't be over. Okay, so you are kind of just foisting your ideas of what a paladin is on them. I mean, Mounted Combat is about the last thing I'd think of with a Paladin character. At least until I got the spell. I don't really see what Armor has to do with anything, except I guess the Celtic equivalents in your world have a weaker military than the other people, since they aren't using equipment that might save their lives. I mean, sure, people have to make sense for the world, but if you are defining things to the point of "People from this region won't use this equipment, and people with this class are required to use this equipment" then you are moving really far down the spectrum. Why? Because you and the DM aren't on the same page about the rules? Or because the DM would get upset about you daring to tell someone else what the rules are? Honestly, the only time I step in when a player is explaining something is if I feel like they are doing a bad job of it. Seems to fill a lot of people with a lot of ego, but caring about the fun of other people, or worrying that the long term consequences of a ruling aren't somehow unique to DMs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [I]sigh[/I] Of course we are going to say that it becomes infeasible if the NPC has access to things the players want. Because the idea of the players not trying to take every possible advantage no matter what has to be our default assumption, right? I just run them like normal NPCs. If I'm unsure of somethings, then I might ask the author player some clarifying questions, but generally it isn't an issue. I don't find there is anything special about them. Now, as a player, I've talked to me DM about certain... limits on the NPCs I write. For example, both times I've written a character who is married, I've told the DM that I have zero interest in them doing a subplot involving my character's wife cheating on them. That story has zero interest for me, so I've told DMs not to do it. Which I think is rather fair. [/QUOTE]
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