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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8169399" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>It's not just that, either, there are other factors, in fact I'd say what you're describing here tends to the be smallest and most temporary factor - one that it's easy to "get over" for players and stop doing.</p><p></p><p>The more persistent issues I've seen causing harsher outcomes are there:</p><p></p><p>1) Players are <em>even better</em> at imagining horrible things that might happen to their characters than most DMs are (non-sadist DMs at least). I've seen this talking to players for a long time - we probably all have, they often suspect scarier things were going on than actually were, or that a monster had a more alarming ability than it actually did. I saw this particularly playing games based on the Resistance system, where players might suggest a Fallout I didn't think of, and they're thinking about stuff you're not thinking about. They're worrying about stuff you're not even aware of. And thus they come up with things that are harsher than you would have thought of.</p><p></p><p>2) What players find "acceptable" changes in a really remarkable way, when the players themselves is involved in deciding that their character dies, or is maimed or whatever. I noticed this a really long time ago, when we had to write out some overpowered characters in an early-90s D&D campaign, but I never actually thought about, just was surprised the players came up with pretty wild fates for their characters (sadly I forget exactly what). Anyway, point is, if you, the DM, say "X horrible thing happens to your PC!" you may well get a reaction of "NO WAY MAN!" and then them trying to rules-lawyer out of it - but if you're playing a game where the openly-rolled dice say something bad happens to them, and they get a say in what it is, suddenly X horrible thing may be exactly what they want to happen, because it's dramatic and shocking and engaging. It's the same player, but because they're making the choice for this to happen, not just being told it does, they're willing to inflict it on their PC.</p><p></p><p>As the Twitter poster says though, there should really be a study on this or something lol.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8169399, member: 18"] It's not just that, either, there are other factors, in fact I'd say what you're describing here tends to the be smallest and most temporary factor - one that it's easy to "get over" for players and stop doing. The more persistent issues I've seen causing harsher outcomes are there: 1) Players are [I]even better[/I] at imagining horrible things that might happen to their characters than most DMs are (non-sadist DMs at least). I've seen this talking to players for a long time - we probably all have, they often suspect scarier things were going on than actually were, or that a monster had a more alarming ability than it actually did. I saw this particularly playing games based on the Resistance system, where players might suggest a Fallout I didn't think of, and they're thinking about stuff you're not thinking about. They're worrying about stuff you're not even aware of. And thus they come up with things that are harsher than you would have thought of. 2) What players find "acceptable" changes in a really remarkable way, when the players themselves is involved in deciding that their character dies, or is maimed or whatever. I noticed this a really long time ago, when we had to write out some overpowered characters in an early-90s D&D campaign, but I never actually thought about, just was surprised the players came up with pretty wild fates for their characters (sadly I forget exactly what). Anyway, point is, if you, the DM, say "X horrible thing happens to your PC!" you may well get a reaction of "NO WAY MAN!" and then them trying to rules-lawyer out of it - but if you're playing a game where the openly-rolled dice say something bad happens to them, and they get a say in what it is, suddenly X horrible thing may be exactly what they want to happen, because it's dramatic and shocking and engaging. It's the same player, but because they're making the choice for this to happen, not just being told it does, they're willing to inflict it on their PC. As the Twitter poster says though, there should really be a study on this or something lol. [/QUOTE]
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