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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8172964" data-attributes="member: 6801228">shrug Maybe. But people like to emphasize story for certain games, making a distinction between cooperative games like Pandemic and Roleplaying Games like DnD. My only point is that blanketly saying that RPGs have no aspect of Collaborative Storytelling seems to go against the vision of that held by many people.You seem to be hearing something different than what I am saying, which is making this a very hard conversation to have. I have seen and dealt with people who felt their character was simply just an extension of them, and therefore they got incredibly defensive and angry when that character was under pressure, because it felt like they were personally being attacked at the table instead of their character being attacked in the game. That is the perspective I believe [USER=7027139]@loverdrive[/USER]  was referencing. Not "Author Stance" vs "Token Stance" or "Gamist Perspective" vs "Theater Perspective" or anything else. You guys keep trying to make this some sort of attack of preferences when it was really just talking about people who take offense to bad things happening to their character, because it always feels like a personal attack on them. It is something that happens. It is well documented, and it doesn't involve any of the things you guys are taking offense about.No. The point was put forward that isn't the biggest part of all RPGs collaborative storytelling. This was repudiated by people claiming, "No, it isn't a story, it is just a series of things happening to people as they try and react to what is going on" Well, if I look up "Non-Fiction Story" I see... ah, Hidden Figures, perfect example. There was a book and a movie made about this. The lives of three women, and how they overcame challenges and reacted to the events in their lives. Now, I suppose someone could claim that that only became a story because an author or director came in and consolidated it into a new medium for presental, but then I'm reminded of a very simple question I heard in a movie last night "Mommy, can you tell me the story about how you and Daddy met?" We don't see there as being anything false in calling the recounting of events in a persons life a story. So, there is a strong basis for the nature of Role-Playing games being about storytelling. They aren't games about gathering points, or objective quests, in fact, the closest video game equivalents to DnD are generally those that tell a story. Skyrim tells a story. Baldur's Gate tells a story. Fallout tells a story. Therefore I can find no reason to say that claiming an RPG is in large part about telling a story is wrong. Especially when it would not be unusual for a DM to plan a plot.I disagree. First of all, both Football and Chess can easily (and have been) made into stories. Secondly, there is a difference in objectives. Chess ends when one player admits defeat or when the King is captured. Football ends after three hours and twelve minutes, barring overtime to prevent a tied score. When does DnD end? When the players sit down to play, what objective are they striving to achieve? It changes, depending on the story being told.</blockquote>

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